Crypto Tax on profits UK account (moving abroad)

captrico

 Im in deep with some crypto for the coming months, years.  I expect to make some good gains this next year and onwards. Long term investments.   Im a UK citizen at the moment (born UK), however I hold a US Passport as a dual citizen.  I expect to be heading back to the states sometime in 2025 or possibly Thailand, but likely will base myself stateside.   I want to know which taxman will have his hand out when i decide to pull the profits out of my crypto wallet to buy real world things? I opened the Coinbase account here in the UK with my UK address and details.   Is there a workaround so Im not punished too hard for all my hard work and profits or am i liable for paying CGT to some govt agency either way?   Not much online about this so hopefully the experts can point me in the right direction. Thanks!

eskbanker

The answer will presumably vary according to your tax residency at the time of crystallising gains, or are you actually asking for input from those familiar with (current) US and/or Thai tax regulations?

If you sell while tax resident in the UK then yes, you'll be liable to CGT on your gains:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-pay-tax-when-you-sell-cryptoassets

captrico

eskbanker said:

The answer will presumably vary according to your tax residency at the time of crystallising gains, or are you actually asking for input from those familiar with (current) US and/or Thai tax regulations?

If you sell while tax resident in the UK then yes, you'll be liable to CGT on your gains:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-pay-tax-when-you-sell-cryptoassets

OK, well i moved to UK in 2019 and havent worked here, but i have a licence and tenancy, etc. I have only really worked in the states since 1990-2019.  If i go back to the US i will be a resident of whatever state i claim residency in i suppose.  I was a resident in Fl. 2011-2019.  If i leave the UK its highly unlikely i will return, as my parents both passed away over here within the last 2 years.   If in 2027 I pull out 100K and im in say Florida, someones going to get a statement from Coinbase showing earnings.  Will Starmer and co. send the posse to extradite me for tax evasion if i decide i dont want to play ball?   

eskbanker

https://www.coinbase.com/en-gb/learn/crypto-basics/understanding-crypto-taxes explains the situation from a US perspective, but in general you shouldn't have CGT liabilities in two separate jurisdictions arising from any given disposal.

captrico

eskbanker said:

https://www.coinbase.com/en-gb/learn/crypto-basics/understanding-crypto-taxes explains the situation from a US perspective, but in general you shouldn't have CGT liabilities in two separate jurisdictions arising from any given disposal.

OK, i see.  Its rather tricky in my case.  I expect to be on the move for a while, and will be withdrawing some profit from CB into a Revolut or Monzo account for spending in XYZ country.  So really i have no foothold but will be sending money virtually this way and that, with no brick and mortar banks based in the UK.  Or possibly adding a foreign bank and using that for deposits.  I just wondered who might decide i owe tax whenever i do this.   Is it the country where i lay my head at night, or the location of the money where it gets deposited.   I dont want any unpleasant surprises at customs if i ever pass through Heathrow in a few years.

eskbanker

If you search for terms such as 'tax nomads' you'll find articles about the issues associated with those not tied to a specific country for tax purposes, but if you're a US passport holder then my understanding is that the USA has an interest in your tax affairs wherever you live?

captrico

eskbanker said:

If you search for terms such as 'tax nomads' you'll find articles about the issues associated with those not tied to a specific country for tax purposes, but if you're a US passport holder then my understanding is that the USA has an interest in your tax affairs wherever you live?

Yes, im sure im not the 1st to have this come up.   I think i will do the research. Still early days yet.  But the way coinbase is set up, you can draw out any portion of an amount at any time.  So i sell 50 coins and use that for something. Then a bit more here and there.  Rather than a one time big withdrawal.  I think as long as it stays below the allowance for that country then its fine.  Thanks for the tips though. Appreciated. 

masonic

captrico said:

If in 2027 I pull out 100K and im in say Florida, someones going to get a statement from Coinbase showing earnings.  Will Starmer and co. send the posse to extradite me for tax evasion if i decide i dont want to play ball?   

They'll have no claim to any tax if you leave, say in 2025, and sell your crypto in a tax year you have not been resident in the UK for tax purposes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

captrico

masonic said:

captrico said:

If in 2027 I pull out 100K and im in say Florida, someones going to get a statement from Coinbase showing earnings.  Will Starmer and co. send the posse to extradite me for tax evasion if i decide i dont want to play ball?   

They'll have no claim to any tax if you leave, say in 2025, and sell your crypto in a tax year you have not been resident in the UK for tax purposes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

Well, if i unload 100k into my Revolut, which is a Lithuanian run bank, and im cruising willy nilly in random countries how does any country try make a claim for income tax?  In essence im a non resident of everywhere.  Coinbase may send an earnings statement to HMRC or whoever, but i will have been long gone.   Seems like there is a loophole, and i just cant pin it down. 

masonic

captrico said:

masonic said:

captrico said:

If in 2027 I pull out 100K and im in say Florida, someones going to get a statement from Coinbase showing earnings.  Will Starmer and co. send the posse to extradite me for tax evasion if i decide i dont want to play ball?   

They'll have no claim to any tax if you leave, say in 2025, and sell your crypto in a tax year you have not been resident in the UK for tax purposes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

Well, if i unload 100k into my Revolut, which is a Lithuanian run bank, and im cruising willy nilly in random countries how does any country try make a claim for income tax?  In essence im a non resident of everywhere.  Coinbase may send an earnings statement to HMRC or whoever, but i will have been long gone.   Seems like there is a loophole, and i just cant pin it down. 

It will be easy enough for HMRC to confirm that you left the country, unless you are planning to flee the country in a small boat, so I don't think there will be any issue with whatever Coinbase reports. If you've been long gone when you pull down your crypto then there is no tax payable. It is the US government that you'd need to be wary of. I don't know what teeth FATCA has, but I guess you'll find out. Then again, maybe Trump will do you a solid and abolish any tax liability you may have.

captrico

masonic said:

captrico said:

masonic said:

captrico said:

If in 2027 I pull out 100K and im in say Florida, someones going to get a statement from Coinbase showing earnings.  Will Starmer and co. send the posse to extradite me for tax evasion if i decide i dont want to play ball?   

They'll have no claim to any tax if you leave, say in 2025, and sell your crypto in a tax year you have not been resident in the UK for tax purposes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3

Well, if i unload 100k into my Revolut, which is a Lithuanian run bank, and im cruising willy nilly in random countries how does any country try make a claim for income tax?  In essence im a non resident of everywhere.  Coinbase may send an earnings statement to HMRC or whoever, but i will have been long gone.   Seems like there is a loophole, and i just cant pin it down. 

It will be easy enough for HMRC to confirm that you left the country, unless you are planning to flee the country in a small boat, so I don't think there will be any issue with whatever Coinbase reports. If you've been long gone when you pull down your crypto then there is no tax payable. It is the US government that you'd need to be wary of. I don't know what teeth FATCA has, but I guess you'll find out. Then again, maybe Trump will do you a solid and abolish any tax liability you may have.

Oh yes, i forgot about Trumps favourable view of crypto.  No tax was promised i believe.  I will check into that!  I just dont ever want Starmer and clowns anywhere near my cash.     Thanks for the tips!