Cuttings - newbie!

twopenny

Yup, different types, different attitudes.

Nothing like software :-)

But it's more of an adventure because you are working with living things. On the other hand it's just a whole new set of rules/directions to your machines.

As Farway says, need to get a look to see what it is. Give us a photo.

Many can be cut back and bloom the next year. Some can't. It's a case of knowing the type.

If it's a large problem then you could cut half back and leave half to get the blooms next year. Then cut the second half the second year to get it down to size - and the first side will bloom that year.

moneysaver1978

Farway said:

moneysaver1978 said:

It sure is a minefield there - as a software engineer, if I make a mistake I can always undo quickly. Not so for someone who started only last year!

The rose we inherited is too tall (apparently 10-12 years old?) and growing out of the fence hence the cuttings and we are looking to cut it right down to our chest level so we can enjoy the flowers at shoulder level!

Is now in December a good time to prune it far and hard?

Yes, BUT you should try & identify the rose first, or you may not get 2025 flowers, and hard pruning will make the blighter grow a lot taller than shoulder level

Could you take a photo for us to see if anyone can offer practical pruning advice?

Have you a photo in flower to help identify it?

Taken just now, there are still flowers!





As you can see, there's nothing below the top of the fence panels and when we build a path along towards the shed, we would love these flowers in "eye level".

twopenny

I'll let Farway or Dusty give you the definitive answer as they are more knowledgeable than me.

But looks like  a climber.

It's not too rampant, you should see mine! Impossible to stop.

And so if it's a climber it will always make a bid for the skies. More suited to a building.

But you could definitely get some improvements there and train the new growth when you've pruned, to go along and not up.

Nice healthy looking rose though.

Farway

I don't know the variety, but would it be possible to train it horizontal along the fence, by adding wires?

Horizontal helps induce flower buds, as 2P says, it wants to reach the sky, forcing it down & along helps to stop that, which is why many fruit trees are Espaliered

Plenty of YT vids on this, it's not difficult, just takes time & good set of thorn proof gloves / gauntlets

For a start, I'd prune where I've circled in red, lots of old branches. This will let the green, newer branches grow, and it's these you could train horizontal.

The idea is to remove the old brown stems & keep, the green, younger ones.

If you like the flowers you could wait & see if still there at Christmas then cut them for Christmas flowering bragging rights

The removed branches, if you want to use as hard wood cuttings, you need about 18" / two foot long.

Find a reasonably sheltered, undisturbed spot in your garden, then either make a slit with a spade, and push the lower end of the cutting [the bit nearest the old root] in about a foot. 

Tread down, mark where they are and walk away until next June, then have a look, green gets a free rose. Leave them alone, patience is a virtue here.

The branch on the left, I can't see if the green one behind is attached to it or not

If it is, remove the brown old one and keep the green one

moneysaver1978

Thank you @twopenny! So by the sounds of it, it is not possible to train a climber rose to behave more like a compact clumped rose.

Thank you also, @Farway - the circles you drew for pruning are really helpful and does make it so much easier than any YT videos!

I have added numbers to make sure i understand correctly:



1, 2, and 4 no problem as they do nothing haha
3, spent buds so I think it is OK to prune (is there an angle you can recommend?)
5, I will need to use a saw as it is really thick and it is this one that seem to still have a fair number of flowers. Still OK to prune that branch now?

I was hoping to encourage fresh branches and flowers to grow inwards (or at least below the fence) rather than too high or too spread out and exposing how "gnarly" the bottom is!

twopenny

Do you have a set of long handled pruners?

A saw can leave ragged branches where the viruses can get in.

Or, make and incision with a sharp knife and prune with pruners.

Cuts should be made a centimeter or so above a bud. This is where your new shoot will come.

Try and go for shoots pointing outwards along the fence way. They will be soft and supple so you can bend them

They should be sloped away from the bud so that rainfall runs away from it.

Fresh young branches will grow from there and maybe one beneath.

I used garden wire to twist a loop around the uprights of my fence then strung wire from one to another.

If you do this the flowering shoots will grow out of the horizontal branches and upwards with flowers on top - hopefully

That will give you  the roses at sniff height.

In spring give it a feed of blood, fish and bone and/or some fertilizer like chicken pellets which are dried (high street/supermarket, may have to wait till after Christmas. The rose won't know)

 If you can get real life rotted and dark manure that's even better.

In spring give it a feed of rose fertilizer. An odd feed now and then of Tomato liquid fertilizer will help make it flower but don't go too mad with it.

Good idea to use the cuttings and try and root them. Nothing ventured etc. and it's easy to do and ignore. Put them out of the way of anything else where you can forget them.

But no, you can't turn a climbing rose into a shrub rose - come spring, treat yourself to a shrub rose like Gertrude Jekyll which has a powerful scent and lots of blooms all summer.

Farway

moneysaver1978 said:

Thank you @twopenny! So by the sounds of it, it is not possible to train a climber rose to behave more like a compact clumped rose.

Thank you also, @Farway - the circles you drew for pruning are really helpful and does make it so much easier than any YT videos!

I have added numbers to make sure i understand correctly:



1, 2, and 4 no problem as they do nothing haha
3, spent buds so I think it is OK to prune (is there an angle you can recommend?)
5, I will need to use a saw as it is really thick and it is this one that seem to still have a fair number of flowers. Still OK to prune that branch now?

I was hoping to encourage fresh branches and flowers to grow inwards (or at least below the fence) rather than too high or too spread out and exposing how "gnarly" the bottom is!

Ok, I've read 2P's, all good advice

Your number 5 ident, I can see a green shoot behind, is it from the thick branch or is it from the base?

If not from the thick branch, then remove the thick branch as per 2P, this will open up the centre of the bush, forget the flowering tops, a few more frosts, and they will be a squishy mess anyway.

If green shoot is from thick branch, cut the thick branch above where the green shoot joins.

An investment in loppers will stand you in good stead BTW, ratchet ones are better, let you reset as you cut.

You may find them on offer, but no need to spend a fortune on them for occasional use. Middle of Lidl sort of thing. Mine were a tenner, but that was a few years back.

Number 3 ident. As per 2P, sloping 45-degree angle, similar angle and direction to the green shoot, so water runs off and away.

Once you've pruned, you may find fresh shoots appearing from gnarly bottom

Hope it all helps, and don't get too hung up on “correctness”, another method of pruning is to chain saw them down to knee height

Roses are tough and will survive most things, the exception being the prize one a cherished friend gives you to mark a special occasion, they shrivel & die the minute you get them home

moneysaver1978

Sorry @twopenny @Farway, I was away for the weekend. Hope you (and your gardens) survived the storm!

twopenny said:

Do you have a set of long handled pruners?

A saw can leave ragged branches where the viruses can get in.

Or, make and incision with a sharp knife and prune with pruners.

Cuts should be made a centimeter or so above a bud. This is where your new shoot will come.

Try and go for shoots pointing outwards along the fence way. They will be soft and supple so you can bend them

They should be sloped away from the bud so that rainfall runs away from it.

Fresh young branches will grow from there and maybe one beneath.

I used garden wire to twist a loop around the uprights of my fence then strung wire from one to another.

If you do this the flowering shoots will grow out of the horizontal branches and upwards with flowers on top - hopefully

That will give you  the roses at sniff height.

In spring give it a feed of blood, fish and bone and/or some fertilizer like chicken pellets which are dried (high street/supermarket, may have to wait till after Christmas. The rose won't know)

 If you can get real life rotted and dark manure that's even better.

In spring give it a feed of rose fertilizer. An odd feed now and then of Tomato liquid fertilizer will help make it flower but don't go too mad with it.

Good idea to use the cuttings and try and root them. Nothing ventured etc. and it's easy to do and ignore. Put them out of the way of anything else where you can forget them.

But no, you can't turn a climbing rose into a shrub rose - come spring, treat yourself to a shrub rose like Gertrude Jekyll which has a powerful scent and lots of blooms all summer.

Wonderful advice, thank you! Scared of using animal feed in case they attract rats or foxes!

Farway said:

Ok, I've read 2P's, all good advice

Your number 5 ident, I can see a green shoot behind, is it from the thick branch or is it from the base?

If not from the thick branch, then remove the thick branch as per 2P, this will open up the centre of the bush, forget the flowering tops, a few more frosts, and they will be a squishy mess anyway.

If green shoot is from thick branch, cut the thick branch above where the green shoot joins.

An investment in loppers will stand you in good stead BTW, ratchet ones are better, let you reset as you cut.

You may find them on offer, but no need to spend a fortune on them for occasional use. Middle of Lidl sort of thing. Mine were a tenner, but that was a few years back.

Number 3 ident. As per 2P, sloping 45-degree angle, similar angle and direction to the green shoot, so water runs off and away.

Just checked and I can confirm that the green shoot is coming from the base behind!

I will have a look for a proper pruning tool before starting and send an update!

Farway

Thanks for update MS

Regarding your Gnarly Bottom , look up Bud Notching on YouTube and elsewhere

It is a method of forcing dormant buds to grow, normally carried out before sap starts rising in Spring, so plenty of time to read up & ready

I've done it on a fig, works, except where I cut too deeply and broke the branch

Here's a starter link

https://gardentabs.com/roses-growing-too-tall/

moneysaver1978

Hi @twopenny @Farway - thought I would post an update!

Finally had a dry-ish weather so I got to work on pruning the mammoth rose and here's the result!




I also pushed through as many cuttings as I have into the soil nearby: