Carers allowance overpayment when paid calender monthly?

kaMelo

jodielee26xx said:

Hey. I’m not sure if you are going to receive this thread, but iv just read your last comment and I’m in the same situation as sometimes I have to work a 5weeker. Before I ring them and get myself into mither, I was wondering if you could explain that you said you can’t go over £654.33 in any month, if the limit is £151 a week would that not mean you couldn’t go over £604? Sorry if I’m being stupid and missing something here x

There are more than four weeks in a month. To get a monthly figure multiply by fifty two and divide the total by twelve.

£151x52 = £7852

£7852 / 12 = £654.33

Augustleaves

jodielee26xx said:

Hey. I’m not sure if you are going to receive this thread, but iv just read your last comment and I’m in the same situation as sometimes I have to work a 5weeker. Before I ring them and get myself into mither, I was wondering if you could explain that you said you can’t go over £654.33 in any month, if the limit is £151 a week would that not mean you couldn’t go over £604? Sorry if I’m being stupid and missing something here x

I see someones already answered but it is really frustrating isn't it. I'm always under the weekly limit, its just that I dont get paid in 12 equal amounts, some months its a few pounds over their monthly amount but some months Im well under, varies depending how many Monday to Fridays were in that month.  This months pay (when I get paid next month in arrears), I will get paid for 4 weeks exactly, but in January the Mondays to Fridays was 4 weeks and 3 days so £657.80. This puts me a few pounds over their monthly amount despite earning the grand sum of £143 per week.

So Im always under the weekly amount but over the monthly amount.

HillStreetBlues

Augustleaves said:

Well there we are, I just phoned carers allowance for any updates and I was told that they NEVER average earnings over 5 weeks, I told him my payroll cycle and that its in the DWP publication and said NO we dont do that, we NEVER have because everyone would be gaming the system (?)  Even though I consistantly earn under £151 per week I can't ever go over £654.33 per month in a payslip even though Im under that amount monthly 10 months of the year. It's my payroll cycle not me gaming the system

I give up

Sorry I've only just seen this post.
Basically they are admitting they don't follow the legal rules that have been set out in statue, they simply can't ignore a law because it doesn't suit them or it's too hard to calculate.
The applicable law is the   The Social Security Benefit (Computation of Earnings) Regulations 1996 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2745/made

8 (3) Where the amount of the claimant’s net earnings fluctuates and has changed more than once, or a claimant’s regular pattern of work is such that he does not work every week, the application of the foregoing paragraphs may be modified so that the weekly amount of his earnings is determined by reference to his average weekly earnings—

(a)if there is a recognisable cycle of work, over the period of one complete cycle (including, where the cycle involves periods in which the claimant does no work, those periods but disregarding any other absences);

(b)in any other case, over a period of five weeks or such other period as may, in the particular case, enable the claimant’s average weekly earnings to be determined more accurately. 

They need to follow 8(3b) it's not something they can brush under the carpet. By law you are entitled to have earning averaged out if it more reflects the amount you are paid.

There is Case Law (was about ESA but in all Case Law it the same principles apply if they follow the same rules).
LB v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (ESA): [2019] UKUT 153 (AAC) https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/lb-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2019-ukut-153-aac

You need to ask for a MR, if that fails then an appeal to the Lower Tribunal , who have to follow ruling of the Upper Tribunal.

Augustleaves

HillStreetBlues thank you for your advice, it is very helpful information for me and all the other carers going through this at the moment.

It;s been 3 months now and mine is still being looked into, it's in the back office they say. I've phoned up a few times to chase it up and it is the people who answer the phone who tell me I've been overpaid, I haven't received a letter to tell me how much I owe or asked to pay anything back yet though. 

If they don't apply averaging I will go all the way to tribunal if necessary. There was a story in the papers recently about a lady who won at tribunal because of averaging not being appplied. She was originally told she needed to pay back over £4000 but she fought it and won. They are doing this to so many carers at the moment.

Thanks for all the advice.

Augustleaves

Just an update. I think everything has been sorted, I received some backpay a couple of days ago, 9 weeks worth, it just appeared in my account. I had to phone them to ask what it was for as they haven't once phoned or wrote to me. The lady on the phone said it's backpay up to February and when they have my latest payslip they will send the rest of the backpay and resume payments as normal.

I said I have my latest payslip here I will email it over now but she said they don't have an email address and I have to send it in the post but first I have to wait for them to send me a form to fill in. So I asked what was happening about me being told I had been overpaid, she said there is no overpayment and I have been put down as an irregular earner. I'm not sure what that means as my hours are fixed Mon-Fri very regular.

Anyway I think it's pretty much sorted out now, months of stress and worry and zero communication unless I chased them. I should feel relieved but I think I'm still stressed.