Charging for Blue Badge Spaces - general thoughts...

Computersaysno

Many private car parks now charge for Blue Badge Holder [BBH] spaces. 

I think they do this for two reasons - firstly the little parking income, but secondly the parking scumcos don't have anyone on site checking the badges so they would have no way of knowing who qualifies for free parking and who doesn't since they only read number plates with cameras. So really its for ease of remote management and increased PCN income.

What challenges have there been to charging for BBH spaces?

Do the freeholders have an obligation to 'make reasonable adjustments for BBHs' ie provide the spaces in the first place? 

Is it 'a reasonable adjustment' to charge for these spaces?

Has anyone looked at what the planning permission said for the car parks wrt  an obligation to provide of 'free BHH spaces'? [Councils like to put conditions in like just that...]

caprikid1

"Is it 'a reasonable adjustment' to charge for these spaces?"

Struggling to understand why they should get them for free, the reasonable adjustment is provisioning the space. 

There is probably no shortage of equally deserving people in our society for free parking. Also it has to remembered that 3 disabled spaces probably take up the equivalent of 5 normal spaces, free train travel ? Free Airfares ? 

elsien

I agree, providing the spaces is the adjustment. Some places go above and beyond because they recognise there is a higher cost to be disabled, but on the other hand there are extra benefits to support that with regards to mobility and it’s not unreasonable to expect those to be used.

oldernonethewiser

Computersaysno said:

Many private car parks now charge for Blue Badge Holder [BBH] spaces. 

I think they do this for two reasons - firstly the little parking income, but secondly the parking scumcos don't have anyone on site checking the badges so they would have no way of knowing who qualifies for free parking and who doesn't since they only read number plates with cameras. So really its for ease of remote management and increased PCN income.

What challenges have there been to charging for BBH spaces?

Do the freeholders have an obligation to 'make reasonable adjustments for BBHs' ie provide the spaces in the first place? 

Is it 'a reasonable adjustment' to charge for these spaces?

Has anyone looked at what the planning permission said for the car parks wrt  an obligation to provide of 'free BHH spaces'? [Councils like to put conditions in like just that...]

Reading the number plate gives no indication whether anyone in the car has a blue badge so do they not need someone to check?

As blue badges have no legal standing in private car parks then trying to make them a condition of parking in a "disabled" space could be a breach of the Equality Act.

If companies want to charge for spaces then fair enough.

Gr1pr

Councils also charge, so I fail to see what the arguments are 

The real argument regarding the BB spaces is about reasonable adjustments 

Councils may provide an Extra hour free, so 60 minutes consideration period and grace period combined, private car parks don't at the moment, the argument could be said to be that the BB holder needs more time to unload and load themselves, hence the Extra 60 minutes, because they paid for the actual parking time, whereas able bodied people may need only 10 minutes either side of the paid for time , making 20 minutes for consideration time plus grace period time 

So a bit like the Jopson case, loading and unloading is not parking ( same for deliveries or taxis , its stopping not parking, so the extra time is what should be considered here, not the charge itself. )

Parking bays are too small in this country, as a recent study confirmed, so bigger bays should be universal, nothing to do with the BB question. I know from experience that NCP blue badge bays are not long enough to allow a BMW X1 to fit inside the lines 

Fruitcake

First of all, they are not blue badge parking bays, nor are they disabled parking bays, although most people know what you mean if you use the latter term.
I believe the correct term is "accessible parking bay."

As far as I am aware there is no legislation requiring private landowners to provide accessible bays, but the suggestion is to make 5% of all bays to be accessible, although this is not always possible or practical.

As already mentioned, the blue badge scheme does not apply on private land, but unregulated private parking companies would have you believe otherwise. Indeed, they desperately want it to be so, just like they want ANPR scameras to be used in council car parks, because it will increase their revenue,

Not only does the BB scheme not apply on private land, using it were it it should not be used can result in a penalty from the issuing authority of up to £1000, and confiscation of the badge. The BB holder now has a dilemma. Display the badge to avoid a PCN, or not display a badge to avoid a penalty and badge confiscation.
A further problem for motorists and the government is that the previous version of the proposed mandatory parking CoP included the requirement for disabled motorists to display a blue badge. This however is in direct opposition to the legal requirements of the Equality Act 2010 which doesn't mention the BB scheme. It does however state that making a disabled person do something that an able bodied person is not required to do is a breach of the EA which is a criminal offence.
A blue badge is not the only indicator of a disability. Absence of a blue badge does not mean an absence of disability.
The COP, if not amended, will result in PPCs breaking one law in order to ensure that motorists comply with another. I would love to see that tested in court.

I am disabled (I have a number of invisible disabilities, but that's a whole other subject) but don't have (don't qualify for) a blue badge. My elderly Outlaws live with me. One is physically disabled and one is severely disabled. I have a wheelchair adapted vehicle to transport them around.
My personal opinion is that free parking in accessible bays, irrespective of whether a user has a BB or not, is a bonus, not a right, and none of my family have a problem paying for parking, even if it is in an accessible bay.

Again, as others have said, the reasonable adjustment for motorists with a disability, if it is possible or practical, is the provision of accessible parking bays. I believe that the legal requirement by service providers to make reasonable adjustments does not extend to the provision of free parking for persons with disabilities who meet the definition of someone with protected characteristics.

Then there are hospital/NHS car parks that are supposed to be free for all NHS users, let alone disabled motorists, as per the government's guidelines.

caprikid1

"Parking bays are too small in this country, as a recent study confirmed, so bigger bays should be universal, nothing to do with the BB question. I know from experience that NCP blue badge bays are not long enough to allow a BMW X1 to fit inside the lines "

Parking bays are not too small, cars have grown too big. 

Driving older cars once considered the norm its safe to say that it is the cars that have grown to exceed the standard spaces.

Compare a 1975 Golf and a 2024 Golf ? a 1976 VW Polo and a 2024 Polo.

I would go as far as to say a 2024 Polo is probably as big if not bigger than a 1975 Golf.

Whilst we can increase the size of our spaces in car parks we cannot easily increase the size of our country lanes.

Gr1pr

Its irrelevant to the current problem and the recent study recommended that bays increase in size, not that cars should be shrunk or go back to the size of an Austin Mini 

The fact that our roads and streets were once narrow cart tracks is no argument either, the cart tracks didnt cater for modern 52 seater coaches or articulated lorries etc

It's called progress , you adapt to suit the modern world, some things like computer's get smaller, vehicles get bigger, unless you buy a Smart car. ( My neighbour hitches his tiny Smart car to the back of his huge camper van, so wouldn't fit in any parking spaces, with or without the car on the back. )

caprikid1

"Its irrelevant to the current problem"

Not really the increasing size of cars manifests itself in many ways.

1. No longer fit into standard garages :- Most garages are tied to plot size.
2. Cars parked on roads cause both congestion and a danger to pedestrians.
3. Larger vehicles are more of a risk in country lanes.

and so on...

Is it progress ? Larger heavier cars, damaging our roads, damaging property etc....

Given the way the government taxes larger cars I don't see that it's seen as progress environmentally either.

Fact of the matter is we have an infrastructure built around a certain size of car / cart and that won't mystically change due to globalisation of car size.

I am not saying we should go back to driving Mini's, far too much fun for many on here !, but merely pointing out that car spaces used to be perfectly adequate, even 20 years ago.

Half_way

If people buy cars that are bigger/wider then in my opinion thats their choice and with that choice you will have to accept any consequences ( ie vehicle to large to fit in garage/parking space etc)

As for Disabled bays/parking etc, my base understanding is that service providers have to make adjustments for those with disabilities.

 There is nothing wrong with charging disabled people to use a service - as long as ( as with everything) this is made clear as some councils offer free disabled parking on council car parks.

Some adjustments could be things such as disabled bays/areas with more space - not for larger vehicles but due to the simple fact a disabled person needs this extra room  - even more so if they have walking/mobility aids to sort out.

In some cases its not practical to offer a specific disabled area, or disabled bays, or the area for such may be smaller than the demand in those cases I have directed cars to park in suitable areas as the reasonable adjustment if using a field at a country event, or in the rare case of a marked car park to park across as many marked bays as required.

As for time limits then if you pay £1.50 for two hours parking, then extending this by 30 minutes on each hour  for disabled people would be a reasonable adjustment, likewise for ANPR tie controlled car parks, if a passenger is disabled then the vehicle should be allowed extra time for standard short term/part day parking

 If the ANPR system can not automatically identify vehicles with passengers who are disabled  aka have a protected characteristic without them having to jump through extra hoops such as registering their vehicle, then the ANPR system should not be used