Engine Seized

dmarshall931

This was my original thoughts. The engine seize happened on the last week before the 6 month warranty expired. 

We asked for CCTV showing the car being originally looked at and the paper towel being found but apparently this doesn't exist.

the car is a 2020 sandero stepway bi-fuel. 

The main ask here is if a paper towel was to block oil going through the filter, is 9 days with the car being driven to and from work each day something youd expect or would the engine have seized before the 9 days?

also no warning lights on dashboard before this happened. 

Veteransaver

This all seems very strange. Presumably the oil filter was changed 9 days before by the same garage? Are they seriously suggesting someone else left a paper towel in there? The oil would need to be drained too (or would drain out) if the filter was removed. They think someone else decided to change the oil 9 days after you had them do it?
I've not seen that type of oil filter before on a modern car  normally they are just a sealed unit so leaving anything in there isn't really possible, at least not by accident.
Balance of probabilities is that surely they left the paper towel in there when they replaced the cover. Either carelessness when they wiped the filter cover clean or something more malicious.
Also, I'm not convinced the paper towel would block the filter anyway as the paper towel would just sit at the bottom of the cover and wouldn't have much or any impact on oil flow. 
If it did block it, and oil pressure was lost,your dashboard would have had error lights come up long before the engine seized.
The metal shavings on the other hand point to a more serious engine failure, especially on an engine that's not new. Could be anything like a failed camshaft or valve or air intake flap getting ingested through the engine.
What's the actual diagnosis on the engine, is it repairable? What has actually seized?
 I'm surprised the garage mentioned the paper towel etc as surely they risk getting blamed for it? So all very strange especially as I don't believe that can even be the cause.
So if they are saying that it is the cause then surely you must have some claim against them for damaging your engine at the service?
But if it isn't the cause then as it's out of warranty I'm not sure what you can do.
Find out if it's fixable and maybe see if your can get a recon engine, maybe not through a main dealer but via a different specialist, if the car is worth fixing.

facade

I don't believe that paper towel was blocking the oil filter at all- it looked new and was folded up under the filter, no paper was stuck round the sides of the filter either.

If the filter was blocked there should have been some sort of warning light to tell you the oil pressure was low, unless Renault fit the sensor before the filter, which is rather a stupid idea, so quite possible....

If it had low oil pressure for a while like 9 days of short trips it would seize eventually.

I don't understand the lack of oil & water. If the engine got hot because it was seizing up there is a light that comes on warning you well before all the coolant boils away.

The simplest explanation is the dealer drained the fluids out. I don't know why.

The most unlikely explanation is that someone drained the oil & coolant out while you were parked and the engine seized shortly after on the way home.

I had a family member seize up a Toyota Celica that they had just bought.

Celicas are notorious for burning oil, and will easily empty the sump between services, they need topping up every 500 miles, or even more often!

Anyway I went out to tow them home and found the engine was seized solid. Not a drop of oil on the stick.

"The oil light never came on" They said

"Probably because the wire to the sensor is dangling by the switch" I replied....

I suspect it had been run out of oil before and caused a lot of wear, and after putting oil in the oil light wouldn't go off, so the previous owner simply kept putting oil in and disconnected the light.  (and got rid of the car)

dmarshall931

facade said:

I don't believe that paper towel was blocking the oil filter at all- it looked new and was folded up under the filter, no paper was stuck round the sides of the filter either.

If the filter was blocked there should have been some sort of warning light to tell you the oil pressure was low, unless Renault fit the sensor before the filter, which is rather a stupid idea, so quite possible....

If it had low oil pressure for a while like 9 days of short trips it would seize eventually.

I don't understand the lack of oil & water. If the engine got hot because it was seizing up there is a light that comes on warning you well before all the coolant boils away.

The simplest explanation is the dealer drained the fluids out. I don't know why.

The most unlikely explanation is that someone drained the oil & coolant out while you were parked and the engine seized shortly after on the way home.

I had a family member seize up a Toyota Celica that they had just bought.

Celicas are notorious for burning oil, and will easily empty the sump between services, they need topping up every 500 miles, or even more often!

Anyway I went out to tow them home and found the engine was seized solid. Not a drop of oil on the stick.

"The oil light never came on" They said

"Probably because the wire to the sensor is dangling by the switch" I replied....

I suspect it had been run out of oil before and caused a lot of wear, and after putting oil in the oil light wouldn't go off, so the previous owner simply kept putting oil in and disconnected the light.  (and got rid of the car)

Thank you facade! This is what our thinking is too. 

I think my next steps need to be the motor ombudsman with a complaint and take it from there.

born_again

dmarshall931 said:

Looking for some advice on where to go next.

• Car purchased March 2024 (HP) (car over 3 years old/ 2020 plate)
• Mid september car went to a local garage for a service.
• 9 days later car stopped at traffic lights, Auto stop start kicked in and engine wouldnt restart.
• RAC towed home and advised engine failure and to contact dealership.
• Contacted dealership to inform them car wouldnt start, they took car into their servicing department (i had to pay to transport it to them) and they checked it under warranty, They advised they found a paper towel wrapped around the oil filter and put that as cause of seizing. 
• Phoned insurance and finance company to inform them of what was happening. Insurance picked car up from dealership and used a 3rd party company to inspect car. Inspection results were no oil and no coolant in car (which we knew already as filter had been removed) but no further checks done.
• Let service garage know whats happened (mechanic informed us they dont use paper towels in this garage and no way it could have been them. they also disputed the fact It would have taken 9 days to seize being used every day)
• Insurance have said that no claim can be made due to mechanical damage and not an actual collision etc.
• Finance company have now said they beleive the dealerships reason for failure and that they cant do anything either.

Why would insurance company even do that given this was not a accident?
Even more why would they then engage a 3rd party to report on the engine, when this has nothing to do with a insurance claim?

Or are you talking about warranty company here?
But even then it would be a fantastic 3rd party warranty that would transport a car to another dealer to look at the issue.

MCT56

I have read through the posts and apologise if I have missed something. The Sandero has a very common type of bolt on oil filter comprising of a plastic body and internal element. It's a simple procedure to do an oil and filter change so I won't go into that. With the filter body unbolted it would be normal to look inside it for any signs of dirt or metal particles and wipe it out - perhaps using a paper towel or cloth. The only way a paper towel could 
get in there is it is was left in by mistake, or deliberately. The problem here is that it is very difficult to prove anything conclusively. It would NOT be unheard of for a garage to make a mistake during a service - but getting them to admit that can be virtually impossible. I'm not saying they are responsible - who knows. So based on what I think we know is that the car - I assume - had no issues and it went in for a service at a local garage - not the dealership that supplied it (which is okay). 9 days later the engine failed. The car was taken to the dealership and they investigated why the engine had failed. During this they - I assume - drained the oil and coolant - obviously looking for any signs of internal damage - such as contaminants or metal particles. They allegedly found a paper towel inside the oil filter body. A third party appointed by your insurers then inspect the vehicle and find there's no oil and coolant in the engine - which there wouldn't be if the dealership drained it out and didn't put it back in. Engines can obviously seize for more than one reason but it is being suggested that oil starvation is the culprit due to a foreign body (paper towel) in the oil filter. Did anyone inspect the plastic water pump as there's a known issue with the body cracking on some engines. That results in the coolant being blown out and the engine overheating and completely failing. A search on the Internet motoring forums will reveal the issue.

Veteransaver

Another thing I don't understand is why a mechanic would drain the oil in the first place to look for issues with a seized engine.
Would that be a normal course of action in order to diagnose an engine fault?
A more likely reason as other posters have mentioned is that a sudden coolant leak has led to this. In which case the engine would have overheated and likely blown a head gasket and stopped running and failed to restart. But unlikely to "seize". Rapid loss of coolant doesn't always cause any warning light as the sensor is in the coolant and if there's no coolant it can't detect it has overheated 
This wouldn't necessarily mean the engine has "seized"  there would be significant damage but it may be repairable.
Op, does the engine turn over when you try and start it? Assuming battery isn't flat of course.
But I still maintain that the paper towel in the filter is very unlikely to cause this issue in my opinion 

jcb208

Was your oil pressure light on after the service

MCT56

On the point raised by another poster about not understanding why the oil or coolant was drained. I'd suggest the mechanic was looking for any contaminants, such as coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant, any metallic particles or other disintegrated small parts in the oil. A more comprehensive inspection of the engine would involve removal of the sump, cylinder head etc which would be time consuming and expensive but that would be the only way to conclusively determine what failed and why. 

Veteransaver

MCT56 said:

On the point raised by another poster about not understanding why the oil or coolant was drained. I'd suggest the mechanic was looking for any contaminants, such as coolant in the oil, or oil in the coolant, any metallic particles or other disintegrated small parts in the oil. A more comprehensive inspection of the engine would involve removal of the sump, cylinder head etc which would be time consuming and expensive but that would be the only way to conclusively determine what failed and why. 

But that won't really tell you anything as to why an engine has seized. So surely until they actually determine why it seized then how can they claim it's due to the paper towel left in the filter, allegedly by someone other than the garage that serviced on days earlier. The bits of metal in there suggest something else has caused the failure which should be covered by warranty.