Fresh Start At Fox Towers.

foxandflowers

Morning Foxcubs. 

Had a very successful morning. Haggled with Vodafone as Mr Fox's contract is due to end in June - have got it from £43 a month down to £16. Paid off the rest of my phone handset too, so my phone bill is now £14 a month. Mini Fox's £5 per month - so the 3 of us are now paying less combined than 1 month of Mr Fox's old bill. I am feeling rather pleased with myself.
It was awful trying to get it downgraded though - did I want to trade in my handset and get a new phone? Upgrade to an Apple Watch? Add international roaming? STOP IT. I find the wheel of consuming so irritating. I just want to pay less each month to exist!

I was watching a very interesting YT video about how we know we are headed for tough times when middle class normalities are trending as an aspirational lifestyle, ie. organic vegetables and home cooking. I am so glad we downsized our house and we can now afford to save money each month. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in USA right now and know that basic things are going to be 'tariffed' to an almost unaffordable rate. 

My first C25K run went well, I am running again tomorrow. Free hobby alert! I was thinking last night - I am so lucky to have such relatively low cost hobbies - reading, sewing, baking, sea swims, and now running. Fashion is another thing I have always been interested in, but I prefer second hand over new. I don't think I am particularly high maintenance as a person (aside from my need for high thread count bedding, earl grey tea, and fancy perfume). I have been thinking a lot about what led us to being in debt, and aside from some poor decision making, and horrific impulse control, I can't actually put my finger on it. Which worries me, because if I can't diagnose the root cause, how can I stop myself falling into it again? 

We are going to be using the Personal Spends (it seems to be working well for us) and combining with weekly Sunday check ins for the week ahead. I'm trying to persuade Mr Fox that he should build us a shed - he has countered with maybe we should just buy a caravan to store things in as it would work out cheaper. He may have a point - it's unconventional but I don't hate the idea and we definitely have the room! 

Love, Fox

kayannie

Would it be a touring caravan or a residential one? I've seen both types advertised at low prices but am thinking you might need to get planning permission for a residential one. Whichever, it could provide extra space for anyone staying overnight, or even be somewhere that any one of you could use when you need a quiet spot on your own.

Well done for haggling down the monthly cost of Mr F"S phone.  I haggled down the cost of my broadband/ landline but only on the third attempt. The first two people I spoke to offered me different prices that I wasn't happy with but the third person gave me a good deal. It pays to persevere!
KA

ET22

Hi Fox, i hope you dont mind me commenting but you said you were worried that you couldnt pinpoint the reason you got into debt previously and when i read that my initial thought  was it was because the systems you had in place were too complicated so you might think you would be ok when you bought something because you could just get it back from a different place in a few days time etc. I dont know if that helps its just an observation. 

I know when have or am in a precarious financial situation, its best to cut out all messy categories. Just basic DD's and SO for priority bills with netflix at a push. Its all the little bits and bobs that make spending categories messy and hard to manage i think but thats just me. What works for me is to keep things very simple. x

joedenise

ET22 said:

Hi Fox, i hope you dont mind me commenting but you said you were worried that you couldnt pinpoint the reason you got into debt previously and when i read that my initial thought  was it was because the systems you had in place were too complicated so you might think you would be ok when you bought something because you could just get it back from a different place in a few days time etc. I dont know if that helps its just an observation. 

I know when have or am in a precarious financial situation, it’s best to cut out all messy categories. Just basic DD's and SO for priority bills with netflix at a push. It’s all the little bits and bobs that make spending categories messy and hard to manage i think but thats just me. What works for me is to keep things very simple. x

I am the exact opposite.  I like to have lots of categories so I can see what I am spending and on what.  I currently have over 40!

warby68

If its ok to say so Fox, I suspect the roots for you are a lot earlier in that you've said you never learned to budget or live on a relatively fixed income and that's possible because you very sadly inherited at a young age.

When you don't have a budget, or even Bank cards that say 'no', its harder to work out how far, or rather how not very far, a regular income goes. Then you get used to a certain lifestyle, with brand names, the latest stuff etc and that has to be given up. Then of course you have tried to support an extended family on only your income to a level which didn't work for a number of years.

There's been a 'disconnect', if you will between the lifestyles you think you should be able to afford and the income you have. 

Now, you are feeling the joy of being largely debt free and getting happiness from things other than spending, I hope very much that this is the move that gets you sorted as you are clearly very happy in your new little palace to be.

Wishing you well (if this was too much to say Fox, I'll remove it but I thought it was important for followers to know there is a long history for you and a fair size tanker to turn around)

foxandflowers

@kayannie we were thinking of residential, but have decided instead to get a good quality plastic one from Keter, and use it in conjunction with our existing shed which we will straighten up and attempt to "save" this weekend. Then we can go to the storage unit, empty out all the camping gear / get the barbecue over and make lots more space in there. Nearly £1000 cheaper than it was going to be!

@ET22 I've been tracking my spends for over a year. I think the amount of categories I have is generally okay, and I haven't added too much to my debt since my LBM. £11,000 of it is from a conservatory we put on our house in 2019. But equally, a lot of it has been frittered, and I think that is where my big concern is. Anti - frittering!

@joedenise Yes! Broadly, my categories are essential bills / food / fuel: 60% / expenses (fun spends): 20%  savings: 20%. So not quite the ideal 50/30/20 split, but getting closer. But it is really helpful for me to break it down further - for example looking at my categories I can see I hugely overspent in certain categories, (clothes being a particular weakness) so I can see how much I need to make back / deduct from that category going forward. (I cannot buy any clothes for about five years according to my budget hahaha).

@warby68 yes, definitely something to that. My mum was very frugal and I think that has impacted my mindset too. I'm definitely better at budgeting than I used to be, but I still have a very hard time saying no. You are right though, this is the first house I can afford. And therefore for the first time I am capable of saving money which in itself feels huge. And because I am happier I am less inclined to spend money on things that should make me happy, and instead focus on the things I can do for myself that give me lasting joy instead of fleeting pleasure. I'm trying really hard to grow up. 

foxgloves

I do agree it's the frittering you have to watch, @foxandflowers. I was a shocking fritterer between my late teens & early 40s when the LBM finally kicked in bigtime. The thing with frittering is that it feels relatively harmless. I wasn't buying designer stuff, eating at expensive restaurants or taking exotic holidays, I just kept buying stuff that I (mostly!) liked & wanted for myself or my home. Looking back, most of my fritters were around the £30 to £60 sort of ballpark, not huge & I didn't even have a credit card for some of that time, but it's so easy to see that 4 fritters of around the £50 mark....& we all know how easy that is to do...is £200 gone, & I was doing this very regularly. Since deciding to become debt-free, it doesn't even occur to me to blow £40 or £50 on something I like just out of sheer impulse, mostly because now that the debt & mortgage have been paid, I have really come to value the security of savings & I enjoy a more sustainable lifestyle too. I still enjoy choosing pretty nail polishes, earrings, stationery, books, etc, but they now come from my £100 per month Personal Spends, rather than diverting funds from the monthly budget I need to cover essential outgoings.
I know I've said this to people before, but there's simply no bulging bag of frittery tat I could come home with now that makes me feel as good as living within my means does. Impulses are strong & pesky things, I know, but saying 'no' to ourselves when something is against our best financial interest is very much a learnable habit. 
F x

foxandflowers

@foxgloves Have just had a conversation with Mr Fox along the same lines - it all adds up and we are both champion fritterers so I am going to get him on board with NSD's and go from there. We both struggle with impulse control so we are going to work on holding each other more accountable. Personal spends are working for us, but I am decreasing them to £30 each for the time being, until my course is paid off in September.

I've been for my second run today, my shins HURT but it feels so good to be out and about and moving. I'm off to Co-op shortly to get more teabags and also ingredients to make a chocolate cake for Stepson. Mini Fox is off to stay with Mr Fox's mum for a couple of days tomorrow, and we are going to be busy shed building. I'm really hoping the weather holds off for us - Sunday is currently looking promising. We are off up North to visit SIL and complete a secret errand next week, so will be quiet from me for a bit. I hope you all have a lovely Easter weekend. 

I will leave you with this trend that has been doing the rounds on social media - action figures! It's me!

dreaming

I have been reading along with you right from the start of your journey and applaud you for coming so far, and continually trying to improve your situation and settle down to a calmer way of living. Re your overspending habits -  my daughter was very like you from when she first started work until fairly recently (she's 43 now). It drove me mad as I had spent many years with my ex-H (her father) battling his tendency to spend now, think later, and had tried to teach both our children the importance of budgetting. It came to a head about 12 years ago when she admitted that she had large debts and started a DMP with Stepchange. She was determined to pay everything off and refused to accept a Mum-loan to help instead, working her normal NHS job, then doing agency work on her days off, as well as studying. Once the debts were paid, and her salary increased as she gained higher qualifications, she unfortunately let the bad habits creep back in. and a year or so ago she realised she had nothing much to show for for her spending. She was renting, had quite an old second-hand car, and was living payday to payday. At the same time I was quite ill, and she was studying yet again for her Masters so she was stressed out about everything and decided to get some MH counselling. With things settling down last year (I was better and she passed her MSc) she decided to start cash stuffing as a way of budgetting, and although it isn't how I do things, it seems to have worked for her. At the same time, partly as a result of the counselling and partly her own introspection, she underwent tests and was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum. She feels now that she over-spent in an effort to fit in with other people and feel "normal", and although she is academically a high achiever, her autism (which was hidden by her achievements and ability to "mask") meant that she had/has a tendency to always go to the limits in whatever she does. In a way, that has worked in her favour as she is a demon now about budgetting rather than the spending, and understanding her divergence has enabled her to accept herself for what she is rather than feeling an outsider. Sorry, this seems to have turned into a bit of a novel but I believe you have had diagnoses of autism and adhd, so maybe this has played a part in your past habits? I may be worth looking into this with a counsellor if you have the opportunity and trying to find what controls you could possibly put in place to avoid going back in times of overwhelm. However, whilst it can be a valuable thing to understand the past (and learn from the mistakes) don't let it take away the pride and pleasure you should feel in getting to grips with things.

foxandflowers

dreaming said:

 She feels now that she over-spent in an effort to fit in with other people and feel "normal", and although she is academically a high achiever, her autism (which was hidden by her achievements and ability to "mask") meant that she had/has a tendency to always go to the limits in whatever she does. 

Oooh that is interesting. I hadn't really considered before how much of it could be due to trying to be normal. I am autistic, Mr Fox is ADHD and it can be a really bad combination especially as we both have impulse control issues. Thank you for this insight, it is really helpful and I have been thinking about it since you posted it.