Insurance excess fee

adammm2024

Hi All, any advice appreciated.

I own my leasehold flat. the flat above caused a water leak, through neglect. It was going on for over 6 months. It caused damage to my property and now I have to make an insurance claim for the damages. The tenant above me has disappeared, but I think the owner of the property above should pay the insurance excess fee as his tenant caused the problem/damage?

FYI, there's nothing in the lease about this and the management agent doesn't want to get involved.

Mark_d

Should you have to make a claim on your insurance given that the cause was negligence on the part of the flat above you?  I would seek legal advice as to how you can proceed.  I don't think it's right that the tenant can cause damage to your flat and then disappear

DullGreyGuy

What do you mean "neglect"? 
What evidence do you have?

Most cases those that have sustained the damage share the cost of the excess, to claim off the other party you would need to show their negligence and in most cases this isn't the case

eddddy

adammm2024 said:

I own my leasehold flat. the flat above caused a water leak, through neglect. It was going on for over 6 months.

Are you saying that the tenant in the flat above knew about the leak, and knew it was damaging your flat, but did nothing about it for 6 months (e.g. they didn't inform their landlord)? If so that would probably be negligence by the tenant.

And/or, are you saying that the landlord of the flat above knew about the leak, and knew it was damaging your flat, but did nothing about it for 6 months? If so that would probably be negligence by the landlord.


Regarding an insurance claim...

If the leak was known about and ongoing for 6 months, but nobody did anything about it - I'm not sure that the insurers would accept a claim.


Regarding the excess...

Excesses for escape of water in flats can sometimes be very high - up to £1000 or more. How much will the repairs cost? It may not be economic to claim.

Tribunals have sometimes ruled that excesses should be paid out of service charge funds, and sometimes that excesses should be paid by affected flat owners. So you might have to argue over that.

But if somebody has been negligent, they should pay the excess.


Regarding the management company refusing to put in an insurance claim...

Some people advise that you contact the insurance company, to tell them to expect a claim. They might then contact the management company, which might encourage them to make a claim.

See: https://www.lease-advice.org/template-document/notice-potential-claim-leasehold-insurer-section-30a-paragraph-7-schedule-landlord-tenant-act-1985/


But tbh, if the claim is unlikely to be accepted, maybe it's better not to contact the insurance company.

adammm2024

Thank you all for your comments, they are very helpful!

To answer some questions - basically the water ingress was very regular, happening over several months as the tenant above mis-used the bathroom (which is above my property). I was also told by a plumber who was sent out, that the shower curtain was too high off the shower tray and the flooring was in 'tatters' - hence I think this is also negligence on the part of the tenant AND owner. I have been dealing with the Letting Agent who has said that the landlord takes no responsibility - stating that its the tenants fault. The tenant has totally disappeared and is unreachable. I do not even think, from what the letting agent touched on - that there was even a deposit taken, which again is poor management on their part.

The the Insurance claim, the excess is £500 and has been fully approved and passed. I told them the full story and they have approved it. 

Do you think I can take the landlord (who I feel holds the ultimate responsibility) to the Small Claims Court? This would be my easiest and most preferred option to getting the problem resolved. 

eddddy

adammm2024 said:

Do you think I can take the landlord (who I feel holds the ultimate responsibility) to the Small Claims Court? 

  There isn't really a concept of 'ultimate responsibility' in this case.

It's a case of whether the landlord was negligent.

You can take the landlord to the small claims court if you want, but you have to construct a legal basis for your claim - i.e. you have to explain what the landlord did that was negligent.


And, for example, having an unexpected leak coming from your flat usually isn't negligent.

But if the landlord knew there was a leak, and knew that it was damaging your flat, but didn't deal with it in a reasonable time - that's probably negligent.

theartfullodger

You ASK (calm, polite, in writing keep copy ) to pay your estimated costs.  If they pay fine, if not you can take them to court.  Might not win
.

Even if you win  (the easy bit..) collecting the ££_ is the hard bit.

What did you do over the 6 months to request landlord to fix? Evidence of what you did?

adammm2024

@edddy Thank you. The letting agent was definitely aware, and I believe they updated the landlord. The tenant changed the locks of the property, so the agent could not gain access. But this not an excuse as the leak was going on for 8 months. After a reasonable amount of time/negotiation with the tenant - they should have instructed a locksmith and changed the locks back. Simple as that. But they did not and when I asked the manager about this, he said ' well...whos going to pay for the locksmith?' Which frankly I found quite unbelievable.  If it was a burst pipe, that was attended to within reasonable time frames, I wouldn't have a problem, but this leak went on for 7 or 8 months, with water regularly streaming down my walls/ceiling. 

adammm2024

@theartfullodger Hi, thanks for your advice. I have asked politely and would even accept a contribution to the excess fee. But they have politely said no. I guess if I did win, then the landlord would incur a CCJ if he failed to pay - something I am certain he would want to avoid. 

I have numerous emails to the letting agent, with photos, asking them for updates. They continuously ignored me, until I would copy in the property ombudsman, then suddenly a response! Hopefully these records would be enough to evidence the water ingress.