CCJ set aside of CEL claim

Coupon-mad

I think deliver them today or tomorrow, as long as there's a postbox.

Either option is good as long as you add page numbers (and page dividers might help).

Would it also be necessary for me to bring the original evidence documents( Land Registry, mortgage approval, driving licence..etc)to the hearing, or would the copies already submitted be sufficient?

If I do deliver a hard copy bundle to the court, should I include a short covering letter explaining the reason for providing the documents in hard copy?

Yes and yes.

Sumsum12

Hi, the hearing took place today. There’s both good and bad news. The claimant did not attend, and the CCJ was set aside, which is positive. However, the judge refused to strike out the claim, saying the issue about the faulty machine and non-payment should be dealt with in a full defence. I was quite nervous, so I wasn’t able to present all the authorities as clearly as I wanted, although I did mention Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Carr and the fairness point about not receiving the claim as well Cel vs Chan and CPMS v Akande and the Poc that doesn'texplain the alleged breach, which he said it did because I stayed a whole hour in the parking car without paying ( even if the payment machine was defect). I also forgot to raise costs during the hearing, even though I included them in my WSW, so I don’t expect they will be awarded. I now need to file a defence, likely within 14 days. It’s frustrating as this has already taken a long time, and the claimant didn’t even attend, yet I still have to spend more time defending it.

Le_Kirk

Did the judge say you had to file a defence against the original POC or did she/he require the parking company to submit a new POC?

Sumsum12

Hi Le_Kirk,

I think he said that I need to file a defence against the original POC. He explained that he will allow the claim to continue, and that I should rely on the defence I already submitted along with my witness statement, and complete the questionnaire that will be sent to me. If the claimant decides to continue with the claim, there may be another hearing. However, he mentioned that in most cases, claimants discontinue. Why isn’t the court going to send an email or letter confirming the outcome of today’s hearing and the deadline for submitting the defence? Or was it my responsibility to note it myself...and is there any deference between defending the original POC or the new POC that CEL will submit..

Le_Kirk

You should receive a written judgment (but it can take a while). Have you actually submitted a defence against the original POC? I cannot see that you have ever defended the claim. Wait to see what the judge's words say because you cannot just send a defence to somewhere!

Coupon-mad

Why isn’t the court going to send an email or letter confirming the outcome of today’s hearing and the deadline for submitting the defence?

They will post out an order to CEL and you.

Sadly, by forgetting to ask for your costs, they are gone. We had someone only last week who made the same expensive error. You MUST ask for costs at the end of hearings but you cannot recover these now if the Order says 'no order as to costs'.

Sumsum12

Hi Le_Kirk,

Hopefully I receive the court documents by post soon, as I understood the judge gave me until 5/04 to file my Defence.

I have not previously filed a Defence to the Particulars of Claim because I never received any correspondence from the claimant, which is why I applied for the set aside. Although I included in my witness statement, skeleton, and supplementary statement defence points, those were only for the set aside application, but not a formal Defence to the claim itself.

I now understand that I need to file a proper Defence and effectively start the process from the beginning again, which is quite frustrating and making me mad that i need to waste more time in this because of their fault.

During the hearing, the judge did not engage much with the Court of Appeal authority and stated that the original correspondence had been sent to my current address, even though my credit report shows the old address. I could not challenge this further because I genuinely do not know where the documents were sent, but I am 100% certain they were not sent to my current address, otherwise I would have received and responded to them. I Knew he didn't read the court document beforehand bcs he was asking me if this right or not..which I don't know bcs I haven't recieved them. Same with court of Appeal Vcs v Carr..

I also clarified that my application was not about avoiding payment as he believes strongly , but about the unfairness of claims being sent to old addresses without proper checks and the claimant being unreasonable. But, the judge did not accept that argument or the point to strike out the claim bcs the claim was not properly served and should be considered unserved and expired within the four-month period in line with Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Carr. Instead, he stated that these issues can be addressed in a full Defence after setting the judgment aside.

Hi Coupon-Mad,

After seeing how the hearing went, I feel quite frustrated. Even though the claimant didn’t attend and has acted unreasonably throughout, it seemed as if all the time and effort I’ve spent over the past two years , worrying, researching, preparing evidence and arguments, bothering you guys with my questions and even coming to court for the first time despite being very nervous was viewed as if it was just to avoid paying £298. That left me quite speechless and honestly more upset, because their absence shows, in my view, a lack of care about the impact this has had on me, rather than any genuine effort to resolve the matter properly.

I also realise I forgot to mention my costs during the hearing, partly due to nerves and frustration. Even if I had raised them, I felt the judge might have seen it as trying to gain money from the claimant, rather than recognising that I did genuinely incur a loss of earnings by attending court.

Overall, it felt like the focus was on the idea that I didn’t pay for the hour, even though the machine was not working, and that for the sake of fairness to the claimant, that point was given more weight than the issues I raised.

Coupon-mad

This isn't on you.

Totally agree your judge sounds unfair. This was YOUR hearing you paid for and the crux was that the claim was not served to the right address so he had no discretion (mandatory set aside) and he had no business focussing on the PCN or accusing you of credit cleansing.

We often hear that people get a rookie judge for applications who is rude & dismissive, then if the PPC don't continue and there's a second hearing, it's like chalk & cheese and a decent judge.

Onwards & upwards!

rachity

@Coupon-mad If it helps, The Rye & Holywell Mead (including the Lido car park) is covered under local byelaws. I can't seem to upload a copy on here.

Coupon-mad

Thanks. Found them here:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/request_for_byelaws_etc_the_rye/response/1724973/attach/html/3/WDC%20Byelaws.pdf.html

But I see the POC only says 'Bellevue' so it fails to even identify the private land let alone the alleged breach/term.