CCJ set aside of CEL claim

Coupon-mad

You can, if you search the forum!

People seem to forget to search. This forum is a huge resource and often, when a thought crops up, there's no need to ask us.

Sumsum12

Luckily,I was able to avoid searching their email because they sent me an email today offering to set aside the judgment if I pay a reduced fee of £135. What I find puzzling is their claim that I never contacted them before applying to set aside the judgment. They say that if I had reached out, they would have made the same offer back then—which is completely untrue.

It’s clear they just want to present themselves to the judge as being cooperative while making me seem stubborn for continuing with my application. When I first learned about the CCJ from DCBL, I was trying to find out who the claimant was and what the fine was for. However, DCBL refused to provide me with any information about the claimant or their contact details.

Once I finally obtained the claimant’s name from the court, I asked DCBL to forward my emails so I could negotiate the fine, as I had proof that the machine was out of order. DCBL’s response was that the claimant wanted to proceed with the CCJ and that I needed to pay the full amount followedwith notics of enforcement. Now, CEL is falsely stating that I never attempted to resolve the issue with them. They allowed DCBL to handle everything on their behalf and are now shifting the blame onto me. I have all of DCBL’s emails as proof that they were uncooperative and never disclosed the claimant’s identity, yet now CEL is pretending to be unaware of my attempts to resolve the issue. 

I’m completely frustrated with them, but I do agree on one point—going to court would take up more of my time. If the claim isn’t struck out, I’ll pay the £100 fine since, as they’ve stated, they won’t accept my appeal.

I am still thinking about it but would like to hear your thoughts??

Coupon-mad

If the claim isn’t struck out, I’ll pay the £100 fine since, as they’ve stated, they won’t accept my appeal.
I am still thinking about it but would like to hear your thoughts??

No trying to pay them if the claim continues. They'll discontinue. You'll pay nothing.

And 'No' to agreeing to pay them £135 and shouldering your own £303 court fee(!) when at your hearing the CCJ must be set aside under CPR 13.2 (improper service) and you'll pay nothing if the Judge awards your costs.

Have you included VCS v Carr in your exhibits? Including the Court of Appeal hearing video from two weeks ago? search the forum. Add it! The CoA judgment is binding and whilst we don't yet have the written Order, the CoA judges clearly said that a DVLA vehicle address is merely "a starting point" address and not one that can be used for litigation without separate checks (as per the BPA CoP and the CPRs).

Sumsum12

Hi Coupon-Mad, I have decided, as you advised, to disregard their settlement offer and move forward with the court hearing. I understand it's a generic email, but I have drafted a response. Would you mind reviewing it to ensure it is polite in rejecting the consent order, or do you think it needs improvement? 

“”

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your settlement offer regarding the set-aside of the default judgment against me. While I appreciate your willingness to resolve this matter, I must respectfully decline your request for the consent order and the payment of £135, as I do not believe it is a fair reflection of the situation.

Firstly, the additional £35 included in your request appears unrelated to the original fine (operational / deb collection costs) and I do not accept liability for this amount.

Furthermore, I would like to correct a factual inaccuracy in your understanding of the events leading up to my application to set aside the judgment. Contrary to your assertion, I made multiple attempts to resolve this matter prior to involving the court. I sent numerous emails and a formal letter to both DCBL and you in an effort to find a resolution without the need for legal proceedings. 

Additionally, I notified both parties of my intention to apply for the set-aside, which was acknowledged by DCBL. However, I was informed that you were not interested in ceasing enforcement action and insisted that I pay the CCJ fees.

As I stated throughout, I was unaware of the CCJ as it was delivered to an incorrect address. If I had been informed about it earlier, I would have taken the appropriate actions to challenge the claim. The parking charge was unenforceable due to defective service and an unfair contract with unclear terms, which goes against the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and leads to frustration of the contract. 

Therefore the hearing must go ahead to ensure I have a fair chance to defend myself against what I believe is an unjust claim.

“”

Regarding court cost, I applied for fee help and included the reference number in the N244 form, so I assume I don't need to pay the court fees and CEL will not be ordered to pay the court fees especially since I haven't submitted any note with the cost with my original statement. 

And yes, I included VCS v Carr in my skeleton arguments exhibits using the judgment link provided by Le-Kirk, but not the Court of Appeal hearing video from two weeks ago.

Will Dartford Court accept it if I forward it now, after already submitting my N244 application and skeleton argument?

Sumsum12

Also I obtained a picture from the park sign and it failed to provide clear instructions on what to do if the machine was defective(picture was sent to the court ) and payment with the pay phone was declined(couldn't find evidence).

Can this be a strong argument to have the judgment struck out due to lack of proper instruction and frustrated contract terms that breached the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Do i need to send this signage with the video or wait until my defence hearing.!

Coupon-mad

Did you include the time/date metadata of the machine photo? If not, it's not evidence.

There's also no point in replying like you've drafted. And this is wrong:

"Firstly, the additional £35 included in your request appears unrelated to the original fine (operational / debt collection costs) and I do not accept liability for this amount."

That's a very inadvisable paragraph, because:

- the £35 was the real cost: the court fee they paid so you can't deny liability for that (if you lose), and

- it's not a fine, and

- it's the 'debt collection' fake costs that you aren't liable for but the way you've put that sounds like you are accepting that the 'original' charge included the fake debt/admin fee.

Anyway if you didn't include the metadata why not send a short Supplementary WS attaching that photo as a screenshot instead plus a link to the Court of Appeal hearing video which includes the learned Judges almost sneering at VCS' lawyer and telling him that a DVLA address is "only a starting point" and cannot be argued to be evidence of checking properly for a possible new address prior to litigation.

Read what I said yesterday to @Emmanat who is also at your stage. Defendants seeing Judges about CCJ set aside applications need to be primed and ready for a naive Judge who has always wrongly thought that a DVLA address check is sufficient.

There are some Judges who think that. They are WRONG and now we have binding case law to stop those errors.

Shove VCS v Carr down their throat if the Judge starts to say that & blame you!  These Judges need to learn from the CoA case and change their thinking.

Sumsum12

Thank you Coupon-Mad for pointing out my errors in my email response to the CEL. I felt that I had a duty to reply and let them know that I turned down the offer, and explain why. But if it's not required, I'll focus on writing my WS supplement.

Regarding the picture metadata, my old phone is no longer available to retrieve it, as it suddenly stopped working, and I couldn't transfer the pictures to my new device. However, the date and time are visible in the photo, which should help verify when it was taken.

Additionally, my child had a dentist appointment around that time, and the confirmation email from the dentist could serve as further evidence of why we were there. (I did not include this email as evidence in my original witness statement.)

I usually park there every 6 to 8 weeks for my children's dentist appointments. In fact, I parked there the day before the incident and still have a bank transaction as proof that I paid for parking then. This could help demonstrate that I had no intention of avoiding payment and that the machine was working the day before but not on the 4th.

I will check with the court to see if they allow the late submission of a supplementary witness statement, including the dentist appointment confirmation, the bank statement for parking the previous day, and the Court of Appeal hearing video. The evidence of the defective machine was included in my original witness statement, and I also mentioned my dentist appointment at the time, but I did not submit the photo metadata or highlight the date and time, assuming it was clearly visible and was also written in the  PoC the court send me 

I will write the supplementary witness statement soon, but I just realized that I haven't submitted a Subject Access Request (SAR) to CEL/DCBL for all the information they have related to the PCN. Do I need to do this before the hearing?

Sumsum12

To be honest I'm not sure if the judge will review the links to the judgment or watch the video. Based on the discussions and threads I've read here, judges prefer to make their own decisions rather than rely on previous rulings. If the judge doesn't find a strong reason to set aside the judgment in my case, he may not grant it.

I'm especially concerned about how to respond if the judge asks why I didn’t receive the PCN when I was still living at my previous address until the end of February. I haven’t submitted my tenancy agreement, which the judge might request in court. The reason I didn’t include it is that, as I mentioned earlier, this was only a temporary address. All my official records—utilities, council tax, mortgage, and voter registration—are linked to my current address.

The only mistake I made was forgetting to update my DVLA address sooner, despite having changed it on my driving license months earlier. 

Another potential question is why I didn’t leave the parking area if the machine wasn’t working. In my original witness statement, I explained that I couldn’t leave because my child had an appointment with a specialist that had been scheduled eight weeks in advance, and I needed to get him back to school as soon as possible afterward. However, I’m not sure if the judge will find this a valid argument.

Coupon-mad

No SAR.

I will check with the court to see if they allow the late submission of a supplementary witness statement,

No. You don't ask!

You just submit it by email to the local court without asking and cc in CEL, as I can see this is an in-house claim

Sumsum12

Hi Coupon-Mad,

I reviewed @Emmanat thread again yesterday and noticed a key similarity to my case. It seems Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) sent the PCN and court claim to my very old address ([Address A])—not even my temporary address ([Address B]), which I referenced in my original witness statement and built all my argument about it .

When I entered the PCN reference from CEL's latest email into their website,the address associated with the PCN is still my old address[Address A].This is despite the fact that when I moved from that address, CEL issued me parking fines that I appealed. At that time, I informed them of my move and provided my temporary address [Address B]. However, their system apparently retains my outdated address.

I have copies of those earlier PCN letters, including the fines I received. Do you think I should include them as evidence? They demonstrate that CEL was aware I no longer lived at [Address A], even though I don't have definitive proof of where the PCN and court claim were actually sent.

If they were indeed sent to [Address A], that would explain why I never received them at my temporary ([Address B]) or current ([Address C]) . Honestly, I was starting to question if I am losing memory!

I've also drafted a Supplementary Witness Statement and an email outlining my reasons for rejecting their settlement offer(just to have evidence that I responded ).
Would you mind to review them when you have time?

The Supplementary Witness Statement and email follows below.

Thanks again for your help!