Electricians: On/off switch with live/dead indicator

Ectophile

I should point out that modern neon lamps often fail after only a few years.  So you may think the power is off, even when it's on.

Swipe

Surely you'd know if the off peak circuit was live by looking at your watch?

Gerry1

Swipe said:

Surely you'd know if the off peak circuit was live by looking at your watch?

Not if the actual peak rate hours are different from what you believe them to be, or have changed because of GMT/BST etc.

Ildhund

Scrounger said:

  You could attach one of these to the E7 outlet:

Nice idea, but I think you missed this bit: "...  this circuit's wiring is all hidden, with the equipment it powers hard-wired - no plug-and-socket." 

Scrounger

Ildhund said:

Scrounger said:

  You could attach one of these to the E7 outlet:

Nice idea, but I think you missed this bit: "...  this circuit's wiring is all hidden, with the equipment it powers hard-wired - no plug-and-socket." 

It also works on switches - and no need to dismantle, even if the wires are enclosed!  

Scrounger

[Deleted User]

In practice, once you've established the switch times they don't vary a lot. So a simple alarm set on your phone could be used to tell you when the cheap periods start and end. Where meters are hours out it's usually because they've drifted over a period of years, sometimes decades. If you set the alarm to go off 5 minutes after the cheap period starts and 5 minutes before it ends and check the timings when the clocks change, switching the alarms at the same time, that should suffice.

I certainly agree with the advice to have at least one heater with a neon switch (wired correctly!) as it makes for an easy way of establishing and keeping track of your switching times (a piece of advice I saw from @Gerry1 some time ago and followed when I was on E7, and then kicked myself for not having thought of it or done it myself before.)

If you do want two neons - one to show the status of the circuit and another to show the status of the appliance - another easy way to do this would be to wire a second neon switch in a surface mounted pattress in the lead between the existing switch and the storage heater. The first (existing) switch can then be left on permanently and the neon will show you the status of the circuit, and the second new switch can be used to switch the storage heater on and off.

Gerry1

[Deleted User] said:

In practice, once you've established the switch times they don't vary a lot.

They are likely to vary, at least for E7. Historically the times have always stayed on GMT all year because the timers were clockwork.  Radio Teleswitches followed suit.  Times could vary ±15 minutes but this was seldom used for domestic consumers.

Phone clocks usually change automatically with GMT/BST so the daily alarm will have to be changed twice per year to keep in step.

But as the numbers of smart meters and EVs increase.there would be advantages if the tariff times always followed local time.  However, that does mean that any local timers that are mechanical or simple electronic would then have to be changed twice per year; swings and roundabouts.

Ildhund

tacpot12 said:

Ildhund said:

QrizB said:

... a competent person to drill the faceplate and fit a second neon. 

That rules me out, then

I fitted one of these 9m Neon Indicators to a faceplate recently: 

That looks simple enough, even for someone like me. However, Gerry1's second image of the inside of a switch indicates that there are four terminals inside. That gives a potential number of 4 x 3 / 2 = 6 terminals to connect the neon between (/2 because connecting A to B has the same effect as B to A). That gives me a 5/6 probability - 83% - of getting it wrong!

FreeBear

Ildhund said:

tacpot12 said:

Ildhund said:

QrizB said:

... a competent person to drill the faceplate and fit a second neon. 

That rules me out, then

I fitted one of these 9m Neon Indicators to a faceplate recently: 

That looks simple enough, even for someone like me. However, Gerry1's second image of the inside of a switch indicates that there are four terminals inside. That gives a potential number of 4 x 3 / 2 = 6 terminals to connect the neon between (/2 because connecting A to B has the same effect as B to A). That gives me a 5/6 probability - 83% - of getting it wrong!

Not really. The connections are usually labeled L and N and each pair marked In and Out (or Load). Neon indicators are not polarity conscious, so there is no wrong way round to wire them up.

Gerry1

Ildhund said:

tacpot12 said:

Ildhund said:

QrizB said:

... a competent person to drill the faceplate and fit a second neon. 

That rules me out, then

I fitted one of these 9m Neon Indicators to a faceplate recently: 

That looks simple enough, even for someone like me. However, Gerry1's second image of the inside of a switch indicates that there are four terminals inside. That gives a potential number of 4 x 3 / 2 = 6 terminals to connect the neon between (/2 because connecting A to B has the same effect as B to A). That gives me a 5/6 probability - 83% - of getting it wrong!

Nope, you'll find it fine.

• There's no switch.

• The terminals are labelled LOUT, NOUT, NIN, LIN,

You could wire it as a sidecar to the E7 switched outlet and secure it to the wall with double sided tape.   Everything can subsequently be removed without trace.