Night storage heaters, RHT tariffs and EON Energy

EssexHebridean

I'm not sure why you feel there is a "surveillance" aspect to having a smart meter? In real terms, there's not - a nosy neighbour across the way could carry out far more in-depth surveillance on you simply by curtain twitching than your smart meter ever will! How people use their energy isn't really of as much interest to nefarious types as the conspiracy theorists might have you believe! (even if those nefarious types could access the info, which they can't!)

Gerry1

bob2302 said:

Gerry1 said:

HHR NSHs make sense if you can't get gas, but why do you want them when you have GCH?

 5p/kWh is considerably cheaper than gas.

TL;DR: Nice one if you can get it, but sounds like yours may be something of a niche case that's not applicable to everyone?

=========

True, but this comparison soon gets muddied a bit by other factors.

Ignoring hot water for a moment, at times during the day when room heating is not required then no heat will be released by a spark-ignited GCH boiler. However, with a charged up HHR NSH there will be some continuous heat loss through leakage.  It'll be much less than with an old-style box of bricks, but it won't be zero.  A bit like a well-insulated hot water tank that will lose around 1.8kWh per day.

I don't know what a typical HHR NSH leakage figure is, but if it's 10% then much of the price advantage over gas will be lost.  Conversely the boiler efficiency (perhaps 94% if modern) will offset this a bit.

I'm paying 5.5p/kWh for gas (albeit probably in a different region than yours).  It sounds like you have a special tariff that may not necessarily be available to the OP - do you perhaps have an EV, solar or a powerwall?

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

bob2302 said:

Gerry1 said:

HHR NSHs make sense if you can't get gas, but why do you want them when you have GCH?

 5p/kWh is considerably cheaper than gas.

...

I'm paying 5.5p/kWh for gas (albeit probably in a different region than yours).  It sounds like you have a special tariff that may not necessarily be available to the OP - do you perhaps have an EV, solar or a powerwall?

I'm going to guess that bob3202 is with Tomato Energy on their Lifestyle tariff.

Something like this:

bob2302

Gerry1 said:

bob2302 said:

Gerry1 said:

HHR NSHs make sense if you can't get gas, but why do you want them when you have GCH?

 5p/kWh is considerably cheaper than gas.

TL;DR: Nice one if you can get it, but sounds like yours may be something of a niche case that's not applicable to everyone?

It's just the default Tomato Lifestyle: 5 hours at 5p/kWh, 4 hours at 14p/kWh and the rest at 23.26p/kWh.

mnbvcxz

I think we may  be in a slightly similar position. We have a second meter attached to an ancient mechanical time clock that comes on at random periods and feeds a night storage heater circuit descended from the 1960s. 

While there are two meters they are linked somehow and so can only be moved to a provider together on the same bill.

Nobody supports this anymore. Our energy advisor put us on a business tariff as it was the only type that still supported this.

We would like to get out of it but its quite tricky to figure out how to get rid of the meter and to a more normal setup.  If we had one regular meter on a regular domestic tariff we would pay quite a bit less than we do at the moment and only one standing charge. Though for the last few years being on a three year fixed tariff was actually quite good as energy prices went nuts. I'm not sure if the next two years we will come out ahead. 

So far removal options have been suggested as both meters being removed at a £1000 each and then a third meter put in as the replacement? The idea that they could just treat both meters as one, or turn them into two seperate residential meters in the database, or just keep the main meter and have an electrician disappear the offpeak meter have met a brick wall. That is not how things are done, the mysterious database is Boss. If a domestic energy provider will fix them affordably for you grab it...

So basically either move to an expensive business tariff. Or like most people have suggested don't be nostalgic try hard to get rid of them. You could fit your own energy monitors on it if you wish. The world is set up for one single meter. In about a year and a half when my current plan comes to an end I am going to try harder to find out how to get ours changed. Good luck. 

Sailbad

Mnbvcxz,
If you are happy with a single rate tariff ie no off-peak rate then you should only be paying one standing charge. Consumption from both meters is addef together at normal rate.
If your supplier does not agree,
quote Standard Licence Conditions SLC 22G.
You can learn more from OFGEM. Search their site for SLC 22G.

T1730578772

bob2302 said:

Gerry1 said:

HHR NSHs make sense if you can't get gas, but why do you want them when you have GCH?

From what the OP wrote it sounds like they are in a loft conversion and ground floor extension where the GCH doesn't reach.

FWIW I have GCH, but would use an NSH if I had one. I choose my current tariff for its daytime rates, but it comes with 5h at 5p/kWh which I wont get much use out of. 5p/kWh is considerably cheaper that gas.

Yes, that is correct.  The GCH boiler would also need to be upgraded as it is not powerful enough to heat the loft conversion rooms.  Moreover, the bedrooms there would probably still need some additional heat at night when the GCH is off.  The insulation in those rooms is not as good as the rest of the house. NSHs are ideal for those rooms.

T1730578772

mnbvcxz said:

I think we may  be in a slightly similar position. We have a second meter attached to an ancient mechanical time clock that comes on at random periods and feeds a night storage heater circuit descended from the 1960s. 

While there are two meters they are linked somehow and so can only be moved to a provider together on the same bill.

Nobody supports this anymore. Our energy advisor put us on a business tariff as it was the only type that still supported this.

[cut]

So basically either move to an expensive business tariff. Or like most people have suggested don't be nostalgic try hard to get rid of them. You could fit your own energy monitors on it if you wish. The world is set up for one single meter. In about a year and a half when my current plan comes to an end I am going to try harder to find out how to get ours changed. Good luck. 

Agreed. This does sound very much like the setup I have. BTW Is your mechanical time-switch really random -- or was that just a figure of speech!? Mine is 7 hours (prob. 12am-7am) at night plus a 3 hour 'afternoon boost' suitable for E10 type NSHs.

Would you be willing to give some details on your business tariff -- who it is with, what it is called and what they charge per kWh & standing charge?

Even if it is not as cheap as having everything ripped out and replaced with a single meter, providing it gave a significant discount for the NSHs over the daytime/peak rate & standing charge I am paying at the moment, I would consider it.

I do confess I am nostalgic.  The thing that sticks in my throat the most is being charged the full peak-rate for the NSHs. I would consider my family, as a multiple decades long user of NSHs to be a very good customer of the electricity company, which makes it particularly disappointing to have been treated like this and unceremoniously turfed off a tariff ideal for NSH users and not be provided with anything suitably equivalent.

Further up this thread @Scot_39 suggested EDF might still have a Complex Meters option.  I emailed them a while back but have not received a reply. I will chase them up and report back here with what they say.

Thanks

T1730578772

I have been told by EDF that they cannot support the type 'ddc 0171' meters I have. I did ask for clarification some time ago but never heard back from my contact there. Can anyone explain what the 'ddc' specification indicates? Are these type ddc numbers listed/documented anywhere?

Scot_39

T1730578772 said:

mnbvcxz said:

I think we may  be in a slightly similar position. We have a second meter attached to an ancient mechanical time clock that comes on at random periods and feeds a night storage heater circuit descended from the 1960s. 

While there are two meters they are linked somehow and so can only be moved to a provider together on the same bill.

Nobody supports this anymore. Our energy advisor put us on a business tariff as it was the only type that still supported this.

[cut]

So basically either move to an expensive business tariff. Or like most people have suggested don't be nostalgic try hard to get rid of them. You could fit your own energy monitors on it if you wish. The world is set up for one single meter. In about a year and a half when my current plan comes to an end I am going to try harder to find out how to get ours changed. Good luck. 

Agreed. This does sound very much like the setup I have. BTW Is your mechanical time-switch really random -- or was that just a figure of speech!? Mine is 7 hours (prob. 12am-7am) at night plus a 3 hour 'afternoon boost' suitable for E10 type NSHs.

Would you be willing to give some details on your business tariff -- who it is with, what it is called and what they charge per kWh & standing charge?

Even if it is not as cheap as having everything ripped out and replaced with a single meter, providing it gave a significant discount for the NSHs over the daytime/peak rate & standing charge I am paying at the moment, I would consider it.

I do confess I am nostalgic.  The thing that sticks in my throat the most is being charged the full peak-rate for the NSHs. I would consider my family, as a multiple decades long user of NSHs to be a very good customer of the electricity company, which makes it particularly disappointing to have been treated like this and unceremoniously turfed off a tariff ideal for NSH users and not be provided with anything suitably equivalent.

Further up this thread @Scot_39 suggested EDF might still have a Complex Meters option.  I emailed them a while back but have not received a reply. I will chase them up and report back here with what they say.

Thanks

Sadly that complex meters team appears to have been disbanded from more recent edf customer comments.

But you might by luck find an ex member on the end of the line in customef services or as a supervisor etc.