Smart meter - half hourly readings

ScubaMike

Scot_39 said:

Is your smart meter currently reliably reporting your daily readings to your suppliers - or are you still having to submit monthly readings to avoid estimated bills ?

(Check for S, E or M against readings on bills / statements or online accounts)

Unless the supplier can reliably access the readings - daily is the default - they wont be able to access the 1/2 hrly - and it will be pointless you moving onto a tariff that requires that option.   

As most will then revert to some default fixed TOU or flat rate billing.

Do you know what model of meter you have - make / model ?

Which supplier are you with ?

And although there are tariffs that use dynamic pricing based on 1/2 hrly data - for import and export - there are other options that should work for fixed TOU banded pricing - like standard economy 7 type deals.

Not submitting readings - done automatically.
Bills show as "smart actual read" with specific dates, but not times.
SSE have confirmed I'm on half hourly readings, so I'm assuming they get them half-hourly.

Now in explore options mode to see what I can access.

Scot_39

MattMattMattUK said:

debitcardmayhem said:

Who installed your meter? I thought all SMETs 2s hd that capability.

My understanding is that all SMETS2 meters must support 30 minute readings, as far as I am aware it is part of the specification. 

The meters support it - but that isn't the same as suppliers having the right to access it for billing purposes - or a poor WAN connection not allowing them to reliably access it.

DAPF means 1/2 hourly frequency data is a consumer opt-in - daily the default - and if super worried - you can opt out of daily for monthly.

However other purposes are allowed - but as to whether that would be supplier or DNO - like they could access if suspect tampering etc

Scot_39

ScubaMike said:

Been back in touch with SSE.
Apparently my meter DOES send readings every half hour, but needs to be changed from single rate to dual rate mode.  Perhaps this was my misunderstanding, but they say it requires a mode change, this would be free of charge.

Given that suppliers want to level out grid load, it seems strange that suppliers do not enable this as default..

OK - so are they putting you on a fixed TOU tariff based on registers - like economy 7 - or are they putting you on truly variable 1/2 hourly segment billing arrangement / tariff.

I suspect they are suggesting e7 or similar block fixed TOU - so to give you a fixed time window to set your battery charging to match.

So maybe that will be cheap 00:00 - 07:00 (other options possible so do check exactly your specific meter times - old e7 digital meters had iirc +/-15m offset randomly configured around regional standard block timing - not sure about smart digital)

They do not need 1/2 hourly access at all for that sort of tariff - and shouldn't even be accessing it at all for normal purposes under DAPF unless you have opted in to allow them.

But it might be useful to have them do so - if you ever get the chance to access the demand response type savings (where people get paid to reduce usage in peak demand windows)

Scot_39

ScubaMike said:

Been back in touch with SSE.
Apparently my meter DOES send readings every half hour, but needs to be changed from single rate to dual rate mode.  Perhaps this was my misunderstanding, but they say it requires a mode change, this would be free of charge.

Given that suppliers want to level out grid load, it seems strange that suppliers do not enable this as default..

Economy 7 is a tariff best suited to those with storage - domestically that was historically in the form of heat - in NSH, central electric boiler heat banks, HW tanks or similar.

And now for some like yourself that now includes battery arrays - storing as energy rather than heat.

But it's not a default - as the cheap off peak (night typically) rate - has an accompanying peak rate - much higher than single rate on cheapest off peak / night rate deals.

And non electric heating homes - possibly around 85-90% - would struggle to get the off-peak share (around 35-40% of total typically) to make the rate / kWh the same or cheaper on average than standard single rate billing.  So it's never going to be a default assumption.

Unless you have a multirate meter set-up - registered with a profile class 2 supply / MPAN - new suppliers will tend to default to an assumption of single rate - and the norm for the majority of UK homes.

And as to other dynamic demand response / flexibility schemes - 1/2 hourly data can be used in theory on any tariff - if a supplier was to allow it.  So there is little downside to having it enabled (others were rejected in past runs - as hadn't opted in during the mix bench marking periods - so missed on trial and the 2 actual iirc real NG event savings).  But on some multi-rate deals they might not - like my legacy E10, or others - even really new schemes - like the latest SNUG tariff being launched by Octopus - it's specifically excluded.

Gerry1

Scot_39 said:

Is your smart meter currently reliably reporting your daily readings to your suppliers - or are you still having to submit monthly readings to avoid estimated bills ?

(Check for S, E or M against readings on bills / statements or online accounts)

Unless the supplier can reliably access the readings - daily is the default - they wont be able to access the 1/2 hrly - and it will be pointless you moving onto a tariff that requires that option.

Not for much longer.  The Market-Wide Half-Hourly Settlement rollout starts in 2025 and finishes at the end of 2026. From April next year, all 30 million electricity meters across the UK, both domestic and commercial, will move to half-hourly readings.

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

MWT

Gerry1 said:

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

... or wider access to things like the 2 hours of free electricity that Octopus customers with working smart meters will be getting tomorrow morning...

Gerry1

MWT said:

Gerry1 said:

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

... or wider access to things like the 2 hours of free electricity that Octopus customers with working smart meters will be getting tomorrow morning...

That's just the bait.  Do you really think it will last forever?

mmmmikey

Gerry1 said:

MWT said:

Gerry1 said:

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

... or wider access to things like the 2 hours of free electricity that Octopus customers with working smart meters will be getting tomorrow morning...

That's just the bait.  Do you really think it will last forever?

Yes, I suspect it will. The nature of renewable energy is such that there are times when generation exceeds demand and it's cheaper to give it away than it is to pay generators to stop generating. It's been the case for decades that electricity costs different amounts at different times of day. Smart meters give those of us that want it the opportunity to buy our energy when it's cheapest. I'm saving about 40% at the moment by buying 95%+ of my electricity between 02:00 and 05:00 without any adjustments to my lifestyle. Of course, money saving is not for everyone, chacun a son gout.....

Scot_39

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

Is your smart meter currently reliably reporting your daily readings to your suppliers - or are you still having to submit monthly readings to avoid estimated bills ?

(Check for S, E or M against readings on bills / statements or online accounts)

Unless the supplier can reliably access the readings - daily is the default - they wont be able to access the 1/2 hrly - and it will be pointless you moving onto a tariff that requires that option.

Not for much longer.  The Market-Wide Half-Hourly Settlement rollout starts in 2025 and finishes at the end of 2026. From April next year, all 30 million electricity meters across the UK, both domestic and commercial, will move to half-hourly readings.

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

No - unless the rules have been changed again - it's maybe not that simple - it was originally remaining an opt in for existing domestic consumers - at least following Ofgems original consultation and report decision in 2019

 

From

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2019/06/access_to_data_consultation_ofgem_response_0.pdf

"Existing customers
4. We confirm our proposed position that existing domestic customers with smart meters
should continue to have their HH data accessed for settlement purposes only on an opt-in
basis, or an opt-out basis for microbusiness customers, until the point at which the
consumer decides to change electricity contract."

Linked from

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/decision/decision-access-half-hourly-electricity-data-settlement-purposes

It may well have changed since that 2019 decision - so if anyone else has a more up to date version - link ?

MattMattMattUK

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

Is your smart meter currently reliably reporting your daily readings to your suppliers - or are you still having to submit monthly readings to avoid estimated bills ?

(Check for S, E or M against readings on bills / statements or online accounts)

Unless the supplier can reliably access the readings - daily is the default - they wont be able to access the 1/2 hrly - and it will be pointless you moving onto a tariff that requires that option.

Not for much longer.  The Market-Wide Half-Hourly Settlement rollout starts in 2025 and finishes at the end of 2026. From April next year, all 30 million electricity meters across the UK, both domestic and commercial, will move to half-hourly readings.

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

By surge pricing, you mean really mean demand based, which means people paying what their energy usage actually costs, rather than an aggregated rate that means people who use at off peak times subsidise those who use at peak times. 

Gerry1 said:

MWT said:

Gerry1 said:

Stand by for Surge Pricing and Load Limiting !

... or wider access to things like the 2 hours of free electricity that Octopus customers with working smart meters will be getting tomorrow morning...

That's just the bait.  Do you really think it will last forever?

Yes, it will. Octopus get paid to use electricity at points because of oversupply in the network, currently wind generation is huge and demand on a Sunday morning is low. It will also be ToU based, so low overnight, low when wind or solar generation is high, higher when demand requires fossil fuels for generation.