buying a house-level 3 survey or structural engineer?

circlesofconfusion

Hi everyone,

I am feeling really confused about the sort of survey that I need for the house I am buying. The house needs a lot of work and some renovation has already been done but with very shoddy workmanship in places.  My worry is that the renovation is structurally unsound.

What has happened with some of the renovation is that there is a preexisting single storey extension to the back of the house which didn't quite extend all the way across the back of the house. The owner has renovated it so that now it does, essentially moving part of an external wall back by 2 foot. Are external walls load bearing? Do they require building regs for them? If there are no building regs is there another form of documentation to ask for? Or some form of guarantee/insurance from the seller?

Because the cost of a level 3 survey and a structural engineer is quite pricey, I don't think I can afford to pay for both but I feel like I need something inbetween (for example I didn't have access to the roof space so couldn't visually check it, also there is work that definitely needs doing but its unclear how much just by me looking.)

Any opinions? (Given the fact the structural engineer will also be limited by what they can see visually and wont be able to investigate any further than that vs the fact that the most important issue for me is that the building is structurally sound so a structural engineers opinion might be more qualified than a chartered surveyor.)

Thanks!

Myci85

Do you know a trusted builder who could have a look with you? They will probably be best placed to tell you what should have been done already, and what needs doing to rectify/finish anything. 

We didn't buy a doer upper, but a 60 year old house, and instead of a survey we asked our builder friend to look round as we knew he'd give us honest feedback on the condition instead of a survey filled with stuff to cover the surveyors back. 

circlesofconfusion

sadly no i dont, it would be helpful though!

FreeBear

circlesofconfusion said: What has happened with some of the renovation is that there is a preexisting single storey extension to the back of the house which didn't quite extend all the way across the back of the house. The owner has renovated it so that now it does, essentially moving part of an external wall back by 2 foot. Are external walls load bearing? Do they require building regs for them? If there are no building regs is there another form of documentation to ask for? Or some form of guarantee/insurance from the seller?

Building Regulation compliance is required for all structural work (and electrics). So floor, foundations, walls, roof, window/door, and any steel work supporting the original building - A certificate is issued after completing the works to state that it meets current requirements. You won't get any worthwhile guarantee from the seller, and no insurance company in their right mind would offer a policy to cover defects in a self build.

In the absence of any certificates, and based on observations of other works being shoddy, you should take the view that it probably needs knocking down and doing right. Either that, or walk (or even run) away.

Section62

circlesofconfusion said:

...
What has happened with some of the renovation is that there is a preexisting single storey extension to the back of the house which didn't quite extend all the way across the back of the house. The owner has renovated it so that now it does, essentially moving part of an external wall back by 2 foot. Are external walls load bearing? Do they require building regs for them? If there are no building regs is there another form of documentation to ask for? Or some form of guarantee/insurance from the seller?

Because the cost of a level 3 survey and a structural engineer is quite pricey, I don't think I can afford to pay for both but I feel like I need something inbetween (for example I didn't have access to the roof space so couldn't visually check it, also there is work that definitely needs doing but its unclear how much just by me looking.)
....

External walls of houses are usually loadbearing, but with some designs a few sections of the external walls may be non-loadbearing, and in exceptional cases (e.g. curtain wall designs) the wall(s) only support their own loads.  And yes, there should be building regulation signoff for the kind of alterations to the external walls you say have been made.

If the cost of having both the survey and a SE investigation/report is unaffordable for you then do you have the budget to put this house back in order?

Tracet74

Go with the Level 3 first as this covers the entire property.  Structural Engineers usually look at one specific issue such as a crack.  The Level 3 will also tell you if you need the Structural Engineer. 

Section62

Tracet74 said:

Go with the Level 3 first as this covers the entire property.  Structural Engineers usually look at one specific issue such as a crack.  The Level 3 will also tell you if you need the Structural Engineer. 

Although both reports would be ideal, in this case I think the OP should start with the SE having first confirmed whether or not BC were involved in the work - the specific issue they would be asked to comment on would be the moving/removal of part of an external wall without BR signoff. (I'm saying this without sight of the building, which may change my opinion).

There's no point having a Level 3 survey of the entire property if the structure has been bodged and the OP doesn't have the financial resources to cover the cost of putting the property back in order.

If the situation is as the OP describes then the chances of a Level 3 survey not recommending getting a SE report are close to zero, so there's not much point paying a surveyor to recommend the OP does what they probably already know they need to do.

If the structural work has BR signoff then hopefully there would be no need for SE involvement.

Albermarle

The house needs a lot of work and some renovation has already been done but with very shoddy workmanship in places.  My worry is that the renovation is structurally unsound.

Apart from the issue of building regs and structural worries,  what do you mean by 'shoddy workmanship' ? What have you seen?

Also have you any idea about the cost of renovating property? It can be very expensive.

Bookworm105

as others suggest, a level 3 survey will state that an SE report should be commissioned to professionally confirm the surveyor's observations 

FreeBear

One wee problem with a structural engineer's report. For some aspects (steel supports, foundations), the investigations need to be invasive. Something a vendor is unlikely to permit. Without being able to look behind plaster or below the ground, the SE can only make assumptions based on what is visible.

circlesofconfusion

Thanks everyone! @Freebear, that is exactly what I've been told by a structural engineer. @Section62 - I want to identify what needs to be done (if anything), if its too expensive then obviously I'm walking away from buying it. The only potential bodged part of the structure is half of the single storey extension at the back- everything else has been left as is. This is making me think though that the structural engineers report is probably the best first option even if they are only going by what is visible.