Is this smart meter wired up for Eco 7?

lilac_dawn

Can anyone help please? I have a tenant complaining his storage heaters aren’t working. He had a smart meter fitted recently. He doesn’t know if he’s on an Econ 7 tariff.
This looks like it should be ok for the storage heaters?  They were working fine last winter. 

Edit: have added another pic below. Have discovered he is not using the immersion on Econ 7 but just using boost as and when he needs (his choice!). Also I think he is not actually paying an Econ 7 tariff, just a flat rate. Would this mean the meter doesn’t switch the E7 circuit ‘on’, if that makes sense? 

Billxx

If you had the old two meter system for Economy 7/10 it is likely that when the smart meter was installed the supply to the "night" meter was switched off.  This is why the storage heaters are not working.  The supply company should not have done this without giving you notice.  You will need an electrician to change the storage heater supply to the new smart meter.  You will need a timer inserted into the circuit so that the storage heaters are not drawing power all the time.

I think that is what has happened.  Others with more expertise may have a different view.

Scot_39

We realky need a better picture of the bottom of the meter - with tails.

But it looks like only has one live output - not 2.

If the nsh and hw relied on meter load switching of say an e7 7 hr live feed - and it only has four  connections  its either been wired badly or simply a basic 4 port with no acls to begin with.

But the little r1 r2 contactor diagram implies it is a oops 2 rate meter.

For restricted circuits you need either a 5 port with built in alcs contactor or a 4 port (thick meter tails) with a thin lead to an auxiliary contactor block to switch restricted circuit.

But it's Importent to realise that economy 7 doesn't automatically mean you have a restricted time off peak circuit.

More modern e7 installs often don't.



We either need better photos of wiring

Of 

You need to supply electrician

Or maybe 

Your tennant might be able to get another meter visit.


But anything beyond the meter on a change can be your responsibility.

lilac_dawn

Further digging would suggest to me that he isn’t on an Econ 7 tariff as he says he pays the same rate for day and night. Would that mean the heaters wouldn’t be switching on? 

I think I did count 5 wires coming out of it at the bottom. 

Reed_Richards

Any smart meter should be capable of being set to an Economy 7 tariff.  But the issue is how the storage heaters are timed to charge themselves.  Most frequently there was a separate charging circuit that was only enabled during the Economy 7 period.  But that is changing and will need to be done differently in the near future.  As an landlord you really need to understand this and what needs to be done; perhaps call in your electrician to explain and check?  

Ectophile

If it's got 5 wires, it's an economy 7 meter.

What's at the other end of the three outgoing wires is your problem.  The electricity company doesn't care.

Gerry1

Ah, the wonders of the smart meter rollout...

TL;DR:  Tell the supplier the installation seems to have been seriously bodged and needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency because of the cold snap.  Start with phone call but make a note of the date, time and name of the person.  Then follow up with an email summarising the conversation.

==========

Let's start with a few basics.

• If the tenant qualifies for the Priority Services Register they should apply immediately if they haven't already done so.
• If previously the storage heaters were installed and working then the supplier should have ensured that there was no interruption to the heating and hot water arrangements.
  
• Economy 7 is a tariff, a billing system.  The tenant's bill will show the name of the tariff.
  
• Economy 7 can be billed in two ways.  The conventional way is that the meter records peak rate on one register and changes over around midnight and records the whole property's usage on a second register.
• However, smart meters can be set to send readings half hourly using only one register.  The supplier can subsequently number crunch the readings and bill each half hour at the peak or cheap rate as appropriate.  As there's absolutely zero consumption on the second register this suggests that half hour billing is being used.
  

Billxx said:

If you had the old two meter system for Economy 7/10 it is likely that when the smart meter was installed the supply to the "night" meter was switched off.  This is why the storage heaters are not working.  The supply company should not have done this without giving you notice.  You will need an electrician to change the storage heater supply to the new smart meter.  You will need a timer inserted into the circuit so that the storage heaters are not drawing power all the time.

No, no, NO !  Using a local timer is a formula for potential disaster.  Quite apart from all the unnecessary expense, delay and aggro of installation, if there's any variance between the billing times and the local timer then the tenant could be hit with unnecessarily high bills for ever after.  For example, if the electrician is relying on the cheap rate being 2230 - 0030 and 0230 - 0730 but in reality the supplier is billing it as 0030 - 0730, then the storage heaters could always be using expensive peak rate for two hours before midnight and possibly another half hour from 0700.

Even if everything works correct after installation, subsequent changes to the E7 hours or the GMT/BST changeover could cause bills to rocket unexpectedly.

lilac_dawn

Reed_Richards said:

Any smart meter should be capable of being set to an Economy 7 tariff.  But the issue is how the storage heaters are timed to charge themselves.  Most frequently there was a separate charging circuit that was only enabled during the Economy 7 period.  But that is changing and will need to be done differently in the near future.  As an landlord you really need to understand this and what needs to be done; perhaps call in your electrician to explain and check?  

I understand them very well - just hit my 20th anniversary of experiencing the joys of Dimplex storage heaters. Awful things, but in an all-electric building where heat pumps are impossible they are unfortunately pretty much unavoidable.
This is indeed a separate circuit that appears not to be enabled. I am attempting to find out why as it has been working pre-installation of the smart meter. 

lilac_dawn

Thanks - I just wanted confirmation that the meter is indeed capable of E7 with 5 ports as I understood the 4 port ones were not.

I understand E7 billing and tariff but I suspect the tenant has signed up for a flat rate. He didn’t know and couldn’t show me a bill. He also doesn’t have the app.

The installation of the smart meter is the choice of the tenant - although with the teleswitch being phased out a necessity. He is obviously free to choose his own energy supplier so I have asked him to check tonight if the E7 is kicking in on the immersion, as he had this switched off, then to call them tomorrow and check his tariff. Once this is sorted, I will know if I need to call in my electrician to rectify anything. 

Gerry1: feel free to skip the irrelevant bits  

Gerry1

lilac_dawn said:

Thanks - I just wanted confirmation that the meter is indeed capable of E7 with 5 ports as I understood the 4 port ones were not.

Multi-rate meters are capable of supporting E7 regardless of whether they're 4 or 5 ports.  The problem is that 4-port meters won't provide automatic switching of dedicated E7 circuits without a risky local timer or an obsolescent teleswitch.

lilac_dawn said:

I understand E7 billing and tariff but I suspect the tenant has signed up for a flat rate. He didn’t know and couldn’t show me a bill. He also doesn’t have the app.

Seems a bit unlikely because E7 would have been a given when the teleswitch was installed.  A previous tenant might have switched to single rate if not using NSHs, or just for the summer.  Otherwise there's little reason to do so, especially if the tenant isn't very clued up about bills and tariffs.  He doesn't need an app, the EDF website can be used to view his account.

MWT

Gerry1 said:

Multi-rate meters are capable of supporting E7 regardless of whether they're 4 or 5 ports.  The problem is that 4-port meters won't provide automatic switching of dedicated E7 circuits without a risky local timer or an obsolescent teleswitch.

Even a 4-port meter can still control an external ALCS ...