Parkingeye LTD - PCN issued

Le_Kirk

1) Have you complained to the university about erroneous advice from their employee (and their poor printers) and asked them to have it cancelled?
2) I wouldn't be using poor/bad vision as an excuse when you were in charge of a car and are supposed to be able to read number plates ar 25 metres! 

londonerryan

Le_Kirk said:

1) Have you complained to the university about erroneous advice from their employee (and their poor printers) and asked them to have it cancelled?
2) I wouldn't be using poor/bad vision as an excuse when you were in charge of a car and are supposed to be able to read number plates ar 25 metres! 

Good point on number 2. Although i think most people would struggle to read these signs, even in the daytime. 

I will contact the university, but i've heard several workers there all say the same thing: "we've all been caught". I think the problem with using the reason i was given for why i wasn't quite as anxious to get back to my car - that 'it's actually 30 minutes free, not 20 as the signs say' - is that firstly he is probably wrong. He's a regular library worker, but maybe he's just wrong. Secondly, presumably the signs etc trump his statement? And thirdly, the same thing is always said: "we have nothing to do with the carpark". The parking used to be free. They introduced charges a couple of years ago to 'reduce demand', yet in all the years i have been going there, there has never once been a problem parking. 

I think i will contact the university and just let them know i went to use the printers, as i have done loads of times before, and usually get done within 10 minutes (hence no need to pay). But on this occasion i was 31 minutes due to printers not working properly (so 11 minutes over the free period.... or 1 minute over, if the library worker is correct re: 30 minutes for free). Considering i always pay and never avoid paying, it is clearly scandalous that one would be punished for such an honest error. 

londonerryan

Coupon-mad said:

I agree.

@londonderryann a lot HAS changed due to Beavis in 2015.

Please could you delete your old appeal above to stop Newbies from mistakenly stumbling across it. GPEOL is dead.  I'm worried that you are posting that old appeal not knowing that things changed a decade ago.

More worried that newbies might read it.

I will delete it now. 

Gr1pr

I doubt that the library workers hearsay would work in court, the signs definitely trump his or her opinion 

I doubt that any of those people will write a witness statement or appear in civil court on your behalf 

The signage pictures you posted says nothing about consideration periods or about free parking for say 20 or 30 minutes ( no free period. )

The signage is the legal contract between Parking Eye and the driver, the driver agreed to the terms and conditions by parking there, so by conduct 

The current joint BPA CoP describes consideration periods and any grace periods allowed, especially on pay to park car parks


Check your NTK PCN letter for POFA compliance or not, as explained in the newbies sticky thread, first post ( it also gives you the current appeal text, plan B , nothing like that ancient one you posted that worked for a relative of mine over a decade ago. , but IMHO your appeals will fail. )

Plan A is always worth attempting, it says so in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

The parking company are holding you to the "honest" contract you agreed to when parking there, an "honest error" is still a breach of that contract, the forfeit started at £70 ( it could end up at £212 if you lost in civil court. )

Eventually the government will regulate the industry next year, but that forfeit is still likely to be £70 on a pcn

Coupon-mad

Yep try a complaint to the Uni first.

I hate telling people to pay but the case is otherwise weaker than most...your only other way would be a POPLA appeal with some very good evidence of completely black, unlit signs in the dark.

londonerryan

Thanks for the advice so far. To be honest, had i not started this thread i was just going to appeal the way i did a decade ago (no GPEOL etc) and by the sounds of it, it would have failed. 

I just re-read my PCN and i see it says i had 14 days from date of issue to pay the £35. It's now day 18 and the cost has gone up to £70. A fee i'm much less interested in paying. 

Before i call the university - who are likely not even in a position to answer today (weekend) - i'd just like to know a few more things. 

1 - What is the worst they can do? Can they force it to court? I was reading on the forum that debt collectors are not bailiffs etc. I once waited out a PCN about 15 years ago, which after half a dozen letters just went away. I assume parking companies are more insistent today though? 

2 - I am not the only person registered on my car. Could i simply deny being the driver on the night in question? After all, i ALWAYS pay my parking tickets so this goes against my usual behaviour. The photo of my car is black thus nobody is seen in the driving seat.

3 - If i do decide to go via option 1 (ignore) or 2 (deny), i assume i'm best not calling the university to cancel? Or does it really matter, as i doubt the university will tell Parkingeye i've been in touch? 

4 - This might be a stretch, but relating to number 2 mostly, they once sent me a PCN which i ignored. They sent me a 2nd, and i think even a 3rd. I ignored the first two then contacted them after the 2nd or 3rd. I HAD paid for a ticket on that occasion and emailed them evidence (on the app) to inform them to stop harassing me and said it's not my fault their machines are faulty. I could, perhaps, combine number 2 with number 4 and say, "i wouldn't be surprised if the machines are faulty again!". 

I don't expect you are allowed to give me advice on how to 'get around the system' but i have heard of others simply refusing to name the driver and denying being it.

Umkomaas

1 - PE can, and are likely to take you to court.  Lose to them in court and you're Likely to have to pay just under £200 - original charge £70, court filing fee £35, fixed legal costs £50, hearing fee £27, plus a bit of interest accrued.  No bailiffs are going to turn up - the claim would need to be in excess of £600 for that to be a possibility. 

2 - And are you prepared to sign a Statement of Truth to that effect, as well as a denial in front of a Judge?  You'd be a braver person that me. Do the names Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce ring any bells?

3 - The only likely contact between the Uni and and PE in the context of your PCN is to have the charge cancelled. 

4 - Only if PE have issued a PoFA non-compliant NtK will there be any prospect of arguing that they cannot hold the RK liable. Is your PCN notice (NtK) PoFA compliant, or not?

londonerryan

Umkomaas said:

1 - PE can, and are likely to take you to court.  Lose to them in court and you're Likely to have to pay just under £200 - original charge £70, court filing fee £35, fixed legal costs £50, hearing fee £27, plus a bit of interest accrued.  No bailiffs are going to turn up - the claim would need to be in excess of £600 for that to be a possibility. 

2 - And are you prepared to sign a Statement of Truth to that effect, as well as a denial in front of a Judge?  You'd be a braver person that me. Do the names Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce ring any bells?

3 - The only likely contact between the Uni and and PE in the context of your PCN is to have the charge cancelled. 

4 - Only if PE have issued a PoFA non-compliant NtK will there be any prospect. 

I have emailed the university offering them an explanation and requesting they rescind the PCN. I'm assuming they'll either accept my request or refuse? (I mean, Parkingeye won't be involved at this stage?). As for the charge increasing to £70, it says, "appeals must be made within 28 days of the delivery of the parking charge, and while under assessment the value of the charge will not increase." The fee has already 'increased' - i missed the £35 reduction - but presumably if i appeal now, it would go back to the £35 fee? ('charge will not increase'). It seems i may as well appeal and just accept i'm likely to pay £35. 

Umkomaas

If you've missed the deadline to pay the lower amount, then it's highly unlikely there will be an offer to revert to it. 

You haven't answered my question in 4 (above). 

Gr1pr

You should be comparing the NTK PCN letter to the examples listed and shown in the newbies sticky thread in announcements by coupon mad, not P cowboys 

Where is the redacted picture of the front. ?  The NTK is 2 pages of information, front and rear 

That rear seems to have the top part missing, but all of both sides need comparison with the examples, you need to be checking timescales, wordings and warnings, or omissions if not present 

Pofa compliance or not is the first item to check when any NTK PCN letter arrives

PS, its not a good idea to lie under oath to court or on official paperwork, criminal offences centred around fundamentally dishonest rulings could be entered into a criminal record, whereas currently its a Civil matter