eBay Requiring National Insurance Number

Zulazula

eBay are requesting my National Insurance number for forwarding tax information to HRMC.  I'm worried about sharing this information as I don't know how secure their site it.  Does anyone know if it's safe to give them this or if it's necessary?  Surely HRMC will be able to know who people are with the information eBay already have.  I've tried contacting HRMC three times but I've been cut off each time, twice when I was on hold and once while I was talking to someone.

soolin

This was announced some time ago and yes it looks essential if you want to continue on eBay. Vinted have already started requesting this information as well.

I suspect you are wasting time trying to contact HMRC as there is very little they can add to or advise on the requirement to provide this information. The NI number makes it easier to allocate the information from online sites about sales to your tax file. However, whilst this information will be recorded there is no new rules about private sales and income tax , so nothing apart from the reporting requirement has changed. 

This is causing a lot of problems for people who use the Vinted forums , lots of people are giving NI numbers that are fake, or belonging to family or friends (no idea why the latter). I do have a worry that this could potentially cause some serious fraud issues going forward and would suggest intentionally trying to mislead HMRC a is a bad idea. Strangely though, this giving fake info is not being mentioned at all on similar eBay forums, whether that suggests a different demographic of users I couldn’t comment on. 

Brie

How many people have the same name and potentially live at the same address?  I'm sure we all know at least one family where dad is Rob and son is Bob but legally they are both Robert.  Growing up there were 5 people in our house with the same first initial and same last name - thankfully before the internet but caused great havoc when some post was received.  

I was under the impression that there was some maximum amount that any individual could sell across all sites and after that any income was taxable.  The only way to easily track that is with NINos.

soolin

Brie said:

How many people have the same name and potentially live at the same address?  I'm sure we all know at least one family where dad is Rob and son is Bob but legally they are both Robert.  Growing up there were 5 people in our house with the same first initial and same last name - thankfully before the internet but caused great havoc when some post was received.  

I was under the impression that there was some maximum amount that any individual could sell across all sites and after that any income was taxable.  The only way to easily track that is with NINos.

There are a couple of existing threads already about income tax, but basically nothing has changed at all. Selling your own unwanted items is not subject to Income tax.

If you are running a business, and that includes buying with an intention to resell, or more commonly, especially on Vinted, making things to sell then it is technically taxable. However there is a trading allowance of £1000 PA , if your total income, and that includes everything including postage is less than £1000 pa then you don't need to declare or register as a business. However over £1000 (and that's less than £20 a week) a seller needs to register and provide basic accounts, but even then they are only taxed if their total income from all sources exceeds the basic allowances. 

NI numbers, as you say do make it easier to put the correct income on the correct file, and that means that for people selling across two or more sites they can identify people who should be declaring themselves as a business.. I think on some other forums there is a general misunderstanding about all this- with some trying to keep business sales at below the £1000 limit but doing that for all the places they sell, so on the outside chance HMRC pick up on it, they will be required to provide accounts. 

For the benefit of people who are being sent over to MSE for advice from various FB groups, the £1000 trading allowance is a total, it's not £1000 per different site, hence the requirement for NI numbers.

RFW

One thing the NI number provides other than ID/tax is that a person is in the UK, or, at least, able to work there. There's a lot of work being done to make sure that companies/individuals selling in a country are paying the right taxes for that country. Partly, it's a long term project to sort out sellers from China, selling in countries where they don't pay tax and profiteering from it.

soolin

RFW said:

One thing the NI number provides other than ID/tax is that a person is in the UK, or, at least, able to work there. There's a lot of work being done to make sure that companies/individuals selling in a country are paying the right taxes for that country. Partly, it's a long term project to sort out sellers from China, selling in countries where they don't pay tax and profiteering from it.

That’s a very good point and one that I, like many others, keep overlooking. 

Spoonie_Turtle

RFW said:

One thing the NI number provides other than ID/tax is that a person is in the UK, or, at least, able to work there. There's a lot of work being done to make sure that companies/individuals selling in a country are paying the right taxes for that country. Partly, it's a long term project to sort out sellers from China, selling in countries where they don't pay tax and profiteering from it.

Slightly off-topic, I've really appreciated eBay showing on the listings when Chinese companies are VAT registered since the international selling process changed - aside from the legal and moral considerations, on a practical note it reassures me that they are legit and I'll almost certainly get the item I've paid for!

Langerhan

Zulazula said:

eBay are requesting my National Insurance number for forwarding tax information to HRMC.  I'm worried about sharing this information as I don't know how secure their site it.  Does anyone know if it's safe to give them this or if it's necessary?  Surely HRMC will be able to know who people are with the information eBay already have.  I've tried contacting HRMC three times but I've been cut off each time, twice when I was on hold and once while I was talking to someone.

Looking on GOV.UK, your NI number is information they're meant to be collecting: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-goods-or-services-on-a-digital-platform

So yes, it's necessary if you want to keep selling on eBay. Regarding your question about information safety, there are really strict laws around data protection in the UK and eBay would be in a heap of trouble if they did anything untoward with their customer data. At the end of the day, though, it's up to you and you can just stop selling there if you're not comfortable sharing it.

RFW

Spoonie_Turtle said:

RFW said:

One thing the NI number provides other than ID/tax is that a person is in the UK, or, at least, able to work there. There's a lot of work being done to make sure that companies/individuals selling in a country are paying the right taxes for that country. Partly, it's a long term project to sort out sellers from China, selling in countries where they don't pay tax and profiteering from it.

Slightly off-topic, I've really appreciated eBay showing on the listings when Chinese companies are VAT registered since the international selling process changed - aside from the legal and moral considerations, on a practical note it reassures me that they are legit and I'll almost certainly get the item I've paid for!

There are some good Chinese sellers, working legitimately. That's one way of narrowing down the right ones. One I've found, on other sites, is checking the delivery times. Several are guaranteeing speedier delivery, rather than the 7-60 days you sometimes see.

soolin

RFW said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

RFW said:

One thing the NI number provides other than ID/tax is that a person is in the UK, or, at least, able to work there. There's a lot of work being done to make sure that companies/individuals selling in a country are paying the right taxes for that country. Partly, it's a long term project to sort out sellers from China, selling in countries where they don't pay tax and profiteering from it.

Slightly off-topic, I've really appreciated eBay showing on the listings when Chinese companies are VAT registered since the international selling process changed - aside from the legal and moral considerations, on a practical note it reassures me that they are legit and I'll almost certainly get the item I've paid for!

There are some good Chinese sellers, working legitimately. That's one way of narrowing down the right ones. One I've found, on other sites, is checking the delivery times. Several are guaranteeing speedier delivery, rather than the 7-60 days you sometimes see.

I realise this is off topic but i've noticed a huge difference. I have always bought from Aliexpress and still do in smaller quantities. In the 'old days' I often waited 8 weeks for items, now most arrive in 7-10 days.

 However I find ebay sellers a little hit and miss, bought some modelling parts and scenery bits from 3 different sellers , one lot took 2 weeks to arrive and I was on the verge of emailing to ask what had happened as it was just past the delivery estimate, and 2 lots never arrived at all and when I opened an INR I was refunded within a few minutes. Then about a month ago I bought a small craft item which arrived in 6 days - none of the deliveries bore any resemblance to the delivery estimates.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

soolin said:

This is causing a lot of problems for people who use the Vinted forums , lots of people are giving NI numbers that are fake, or belonging to family or friends (no idea why the latter)......Strangely though, this giving fake info is not being mentioned at all on similar eBay forums, whether that suggests a different demographic of users I couldn’t comment on. 

eBay already has a verified bank account on file so, as far as I can see, it would be pretty pointless to give a false NI number as eBay will be sharing the details (sort code/acc no) of the bank account where funds are paid as part of the information.

No idea how sellers get paid on Vinted?