Must I have a Smart Meter?

Ildhund

Onemoreriver said:

So 'to ensure' that meters will work after the long wave switch off, they want to blanket change all of them, which would lead to most being changed without need.

It's not surprising that the agent you spoke to couldn't give straight answers to your questions. Nobody knows what will happen to an individual RTS-controlled system when the signal is switched off, because there are almost as many different systems as there are RTS installations. Some RTS switches will 'fail safe', meaning that the heating circuits they were controlling just don't get any power ever. Some will freeze in the last state they were in when the signal dropped, which might mean the heating circuits are either always on or always off. Again, nobody knows. It's not just a question of 'what sort of meter' - it depends as well on the house's electrical wiring. There are also many customers on various flavours of heating tariffs like THTC which involve two separate meters, one for 24-hour heating and the other for everything else including storage heaters. 

Many - probably most - of the RTS-controlled systems in operation will have old meters. They might be working fine to measure how much electricity is being used, but many of them won't be guaranteed to be doing so. An electricity meter is operating 24 hours a day 365 days a year, and no man-made device can go on working fault free for ever. Mechanical ones have moving parts that wear out; electronic ones have components that degrade over time, and the RTS switchgear itself will eventually succumb to the relentless on/off cycle. 

Do you really expect your electricity supplier to send out an engineer to look at your system to try and work out what will happen when the RTS signal is switched off? There's a good chance he wouldn't even be able to unless he was familiar with the equipment involved. You're welcome to call in your friendly neighbourhood sparks to do the same, at your own expense of course. Whether he'd be any more likely to know what's what than an experienced meter engineer is debatable.

Blanket change all of them sounds like a really good strategy to me. 

Alex_ST

Here’s the problem: even if your system continues to operate perfectly, there is no way of proving that to your supplier’s satisfaction. As such they will be free to charge you at peak rate for all of your supply. They certainly don’t have to honour your dual rate tariff while you are using deprecated equipment. 

It was this risk that pushed me to “upgrade”. 

Alex

Phones4Chris

Alex_ST said:

Here’s the problem: even if your system continues to operate perfectly, there is no way of proving that to your supplier’s satisfaction. As such they will be free to charge you at peak rate for all of your supply. They certainly don’t have to honour your dual rate tariff while you are using deprecated equipment. 

It was this risk that pushed me to “upgrade”. 

Alex

Sorry, I believe that is complete garbage UNLESS there is a clause in the customer's contract with the supplier that says that. I'm not aware of any policy that Octopus has that states any such thing. Perhaps if there's an Octopus customer who has such a clause they can point us to it.

The Meter in the OP's case will continue to "work" (whether it is still within certification and accurate is another matter) and if the OP still sends in their readings, there's no reason that the billing will not remain on E7.
We still don't know if the OP has an RTS controlled system, the "meter" is not an RTS meter but may be controlled by an RTS unit or a mechanical timeswitch. The OP hasn't posted here since last November

@ICMCD could you give us an update please? If your situation is still ongoing, we really need a picture of the other equipment attached to the meter, preferably in one overall photo (initially).

Here's a few important facts.
If it's an RTS controlled meter, it will depend on the particular model RTS whether it will still function switching between peak/off-peak. If it has it's own internal clock, it should continue to function but may not keep accurate time (much like a mechanical timeswitch).
IF it doesn't have its own internal clock it MAY keep your meter on permanent peak rate or even permanent off-peak rate. As you don't have off-peak heating or hot water, that's of no immediate consequence BUT you would need/be obliged to tell Octopus so they'd come and change your system for a Smart Meter.

If you are in an area with no O2 2G signal, then Octopus would need to be told that BEFORE installation so that the Meter would come pre-programmed for E7. You'd have to continue sending in readings.
Even if your own mobile is not on O2 you can check if you can get an O2 2G signal by going to your phone network settings and turning off "Automatically select network", it should then scan for any signals it sees (you won't be able to connect to any other than your provider). If O2 2G comes up, it ought to be OK.
Check with near neighbours if they have a Smart Meter and is it communicating and sending readings?

HTH. There no real issue with Smart Meters, the meter bit works in a similar way to any other modern digital meter (some of which have internal clocks for E7 switching).
You should check (based on your tariff rates) whether you use enough off-peak to warrant the slightly higher day rate cost on E7. Look at how many units you use of each (for a period) and compare the total units to a standard tariff cost.

Rosie1001

I don’t get 02 2g on my phone ..just says O2uk ..should I be concerned ??

Swipe

Rosie1001 said:

I don’t get 02 2g on my phone ..just says O2uk ..should I be concerned ??

Only of concern if not a single house in your street has a working smart meter

Ildhund

Rosie1001 said:

I don’t get 02 2g on my phone ..just says O2uk ..should I be concerned ??

I assume that that means there is an O2 signal. It will include 2G, if so. The 2G connection should be quite good enough for the tiny amounts of data a smart meter sends and receives. 

That said, do I remember correctly that you're in the North East region of England? If so, smart meters won't use the O2 connection, but instead the Arqiva long-range radio network:
  


A different kettle of fish altogether.

Phones4Chris

@Ildhund That's of course a very valid point, I forgot to mention that in the north of the UK it's not the O2 network that is used, it's Arqiva's (different frequencies) LRN.

rebecca1

Hi there 
Eon Next have said that I will be affected by the RTS being shut off in June. I have 5 economy 7 radiators in a part of my house with its own fuse board for the radiators and other electricity usage. Plus immersion heater with a timer for hot water. 
In other parts of the house I have a board for all other electric usage. 
So when I get a bill it shows an economy 7 charge and standing daily charge, then it shows other parts of the house . electricity usage plus standing daily charge, then gas usage + standing charge.  I have attached pictures of my meters 2 electric, 1 gas. 
Top one is Economy 7, can anyone tell me if I have the one that needs to be changed when RTS goes in June?? 
Eon said that I have to have Smart but Ofgem say I cannot be forced to. Can I just have a smart meter to replace the Economy 7 old meter or do I have to switch a 3 meters over to Economy 7. Eon have not given me a direct answer on this.. Thanks   

QrizB

rebecca1 said:

Top one is Economy 7, can anyone tell me if I have the one that needs to be changed when RTS goes in June?? 

You have a dual-rate electromechanical electricity meter with an attached RTS timeswitch (the top photo), plus an electrinic electricity meter (the bottom one), plus a gas meter in the brown box that's at the bottom of your middle photo. You haven't included a photo of the gas meter.

I would expect all three meters - the two electricity meters, plus the gas meter - to be replaced wit one smart electricity meter and one smart gas meter.

However, you seem to have complex metering and replacing your two electricity meters with one will not be entirely straightforward. You should send those photos to EON Next so their metering technician can prepare for the job in advance, rather than be surprised by it.

rebecca1

You should send those photos to EON Next so their metering technician can prepare for the job in advance, rather than be surprised by it.

Easier said than done! I have sent the photos early last year but as yet having had 13 emails from Eon Nxt  I'm no further forward to a definitive answer!  Many of their staff have all said contradictory things! The latest was that I HAVE to have a smart meter but when I called Ofgem today they said that was incorrect!  Nightmare!!