Sham redundancy

mittow

I would be grateful for your advice on the following situation. ACAS have been great at providing general advice but not answers to specific questions. My friend hasn't been a member of a TU long enough to be eligible for their help. 

My friend works in a reputable college providing learning support for students with additional learning needs. She was advised a couple of weeks ago that her role was at risk of redundancy and that a second meeting would be arranged to make a decision on her redundancy. We assumed this would be the final consultation meeting where formal notice of her redundancy would be given. They claim the role was expanding and they now need someone with certain training that my friend doesn't have. When my friend asked about being trained for the new role, they suggested that she'd have to fund it herself, and that she now needs to go away and consider steps she can take to avoid redundancy (that she was obligated to do this). In the meantime, they publish the new vacancy with a very short closing date (a month from the first meeting). A few days later she requested to be sent their written redundancy policy but was told that they didn't have one since it wasn't a legal requirement. The advert was removed later that day. She attended the second meeting and presenting numerous steps she had taken to avoid redundancy including numerous options for the college to consider. They claimed that they would go away and consider one of these options - this particular option would require the college to fund my friend's training which they made clear wasn't an option in the first meeting. We asked at this meeting why the advert was published pre-emptively and were told this was a glitch and they apologised a few times. When we asked about being told a final decision on the redundancy would be made at this meeting, they were quick to claim this was a misunderstanding. They have now arranged for a third meeting. 

My questions are as follows:
1. When we asked them if there was any other restructuring or redundancies being made elsewhere in the college, we were told they were not able to share this with us. Does my friend have a right to know if hers is the sole redundancy being made at the college?
2. While my friend presented numerous options she'd considered to avoid redundancy, the college presented none. When pushed they mentioned vaguely how they've checked vacancies at the college and their sister colleges but this was all very general, and was mentioned only on questioning. They did however ask my friend if she'd looked at vacancies outside the college, in particular in primary schools for a minimum wage position that has no relevance to her experience and skill set. This seems outside the remit of my friend's obligation to demonstration steps taken to avoid redundancy, and pushes her to prove how she's avoiding unemployment. Are they allowed to ask this?
3. Are they obliged to send the audio recording of the meeting and minutes after the meeting without her asking? 
4. Can we use their lack of written policy in anyway? The process does not appear fair or transparent, but not just for my friend. They themselves seem to have backtracked on at least 2 issues so far. 

Thank you so much for reading and I would be so grateful for any advice or guidance you can provide. Thank you so much!

elsien

As it’s not a collective process then I don’t think she does have any rights in knowing about other redundancies, although I stand to be corrected on that. 

None of their business what, if any, positions she is applying for outside of the college, And in her position, I would simply say that she fails to see the relevance of that with regards to her redundancy rights. 

Has she read the information on redundancy processes on the Acas website?

Worth considering though that she has no absolute right to be accompanied in a redundancy consultation and it needs to be her not “we” making any requests. 

And if they’re not usually this shambolic it does sounds as if they want her out, for whatever reason. If that happens, all she can do it appeal and then consider afterwards whether there’s any redress for an unfair process. 

mittow

elsien said:

As it’s not a collective process then I don’t think she does have any rights in knowing about other redundancies, although I stand to be corrected on that. 

None of their business what, if any, positions she is applying for outside of the college, And in her position, I would simply say that she fails to see the relevance of that with regards to her redundancy rights. 

Has she read the information on redundancy processes on the Acas website?

Worth considering though that she has no absolute right to be accompanied in a redundancy consultation and it needs to be her not “we” making any requests. 

And if they’re not usually this shambolic it does sounds as if they want her out, for whatever reason. If that happens, all she can do it appeal and then consider afterwards whether there’s any redress for an unfair process. 

Many thanks for your response. That's very helpful. 

They allowed her to accompanied last time, but I fear they might rescind this at the next meeting. My friend is anxious and becoming increasingly fearful about challenging them. 

Yes they are this shambolic as far as I know - I think they're just not used to people challenging them. 

Andy_L

How long has she worked there? 

Grumpy_chap

mittow said:

I would be grateful for your advice on the following situation. ACAS have been great at providing general advice but not answers to specific questions. My friend hasn't been a member of a TU long enough to be eligible for their help. 

My friend works in a reputable college providing learning support for students with additional learning needs. She was advised a couple of weeks ago that her role was at risk of redundancy and that a second meeting would be arranged to make a decision on her redundancy. We assumed this would be the final consultation meeting where formal notice of her redundancy would be given. They claim the role was expanding and they now need someone with certain training that my friend doesn't have. When my friend asked about being trained for the new role, they suggested that she'd have to fund it herself, and that she now needs to go away and consider steps she can take to avoid redundancy (that she was obligated to do this). In the meantime, they publish the new vacancy with a very short closing date (a month from the first meeting). A few days later she requested to be sent their written redundancy policy but was told that they didn't have one since it wasn't a legal requirement. The advert was removed later that day. She attended the second meeting and presenting numerous steps she had taken to avoid redundancy including numerous options for the college to consider. They claimed that they would go away and consider one of these options - this particular option would require the college to fund my friend's training which they made clear wasn't an option in the first meeting. We asked at this meeting why the advert was published pre-emptively and were told this was a glitch and they apologised a few times. When we asked about being told a final decision on the redundancy would be made at this meeting, they were quick to claim this was a misunderstanding. They have now arranged for a third meeting. 

My questions are as follows:
1. When we asked them if there was any other restructuring or redundancies being made elsewhere in the college, we were told they were not able to share this with us. Does my friend have a right to know if hers is the sole redundancy being made at the college?
2. While my friend presented numerous options she'd considered to avoid redundancy, the college presented none. When pushed they mentioned vaguely how they've checked vacancies at the college and their sister colleges but this was all very general, and was mentioned only on questioning. They did however ask my friend if she'd looked at vacancies outside the college, in particular in primary schools for a minimum wage position that has no relevance to her experience and skill set. This seems outside the remit of my friend's obligation to demonstration steps taken to avoid redundancy, and pushes her to prove how she's avoiding unemployment. Are they allowed to ask this?
3. Are they obliged to send the audio recording of the meeting and minutes after the meeting without her asking? 
4. Can we use their lack of written policy in anyway? The process does not appear fair or transparent, but not just for my friend. They themselves seem to have backtracked on at least 2 issues so far. 

Thank you so much for reading and I would be so grateful for any advice or guidance you can provide. Thank you so much!

Does she feel that there is any option to stay?
Does the employer, for whatever reason, want her out regardless?

While the "visible" strategy needs to be communicate desire to stay (to show good willing), if the reality is leaving anyway, then redundancy is one of the least-bad ways to leave and the "invisible" strategy needs to be to secure the greatest package and best reference possible.

theoretica

mittow said:

My friend hasn't been a member of a TU long enough to be eligible for their help. 

Has she consulted her union anyway?  While she may not be entitled to help, sometimes they will have the resources to advise and decide it is worthwhile to do so, particularly if other union members are affected.

mittow

Andy_L said:

How long has she worked there? 

Almost 3 years so not long.

mittow

theoretica said:

mittow said:

My friend hasn't been a member of a TU long enough to be eligible for their help. 

Has she consulted her union anyway?  While she may not be entitled to help, sometimes they will have the resources to advise and decide it is worthwhile to do so, particularly if other union members are affected.

She did yes - they suggested the situation had the hallmarks of an unfair dismissal but my friend would never be able to prove this. 

Emmia

mittow said:

Andy_L said:

How long has she worked there? 

Almost 3 years so not long.

But crucially more than two years, if it were less than two years they could just get rid of her.

Is it that they actually want to replace her for some reason, has she spoken out on some issue? are her wages higher than someone else they could get to do the job?

mittow

Emmia said:

mittow said:

Andy_L said:

How long has she worked there? 

Almost 3 years so not long.

But crucially more than two years, if it were less than two years they could just get rid of her.

Is it that they actually want to replace her for some reason, has she spoken out on some issue? are her wages higher than someone else they could get to do the job?

They are citing lack of training, which might be the case (although they could train my friend but are claiming to need someone with the necessary training immediately).

Having said this, she has challenged them on an issue in the past few months regarding the admission of some students with needs that the College cannot meet. But of course it is impossible to prove the link. 

theoretica

How long, and expensive, is the training?  Compared to the costs and time for redundancy and recruitment?