Fine for stopping in a box junction

HillStreetBlues

prowla said:

I'm leaning towards something similar to that - maybe even "The alleged contravention did not occur as the photographs and video clearly show that there were no stationary vehicles prevening progress through or exit from the box junction.".

We checked on the TfL site and it didn't yet have a record of the video request.

Doubt it matters but I would replace show with prove.

prowla

Well, after several months of to-ing and fro-ing, we've just had confirmation that the appeal against the TfL Penalty Charge has been upheld.

The adjudicator orders

The adjudicator directs Transport for London to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

and states:

It is very alarming that the author of the enforcement authority (EA)'s case summary (4 pages of
verbiage) and notice of rejection of the appellant's representations fundamentally misunderstands the
regulation concerning the requirements of a box junction.
A contravention occurs when a vehicle enters the box junction and has to stop within it due to the
presence of stationary vehicles. So, if a vehicle enters the box junction and then stops within it for
some other reason, the contravention would not occur.
In this case, it is quite obvious from the CCTV footage that the appellant's vehicle entered the box
junction and stopped in order to pick up a passenger, and not due to any stationary vehicles. The
PCN should quite obviously never have been issued.

prowla

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Car_54 said:

prowla said:

Car_54 said:

prowla said:

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Harsh, but every day's an education.

Maybe so, but the driver should have been educated about red lines and box junctions if he passed a UK test in the last 40-ish years.

That's not very helpful after the event, is it?

It might help if it prompts the driver to refresh his understanding of the law, before his next event. 

It would appear that there is indeed a need for some folks to educate themselves and refresh their understanding of the law.

prowla

Okell said:

Herzlos said:

Where was the car when the pedestrians blocked the path? You could try and argue that you were already in the box junction and had to stop for safety reasons, but I'm not sure if that'd be corroborated by the camera that caught you in the box.

I may be mistaken but my understanding is that stopping in a yellow box is only an infringement if you have to stop because of the presence of stationary vehicles.  I know the Highway Code says you must not enter a box junction unless your exit is clear, but I don't think that that is strictly correct.

If I've understood the OP correctly, they didn't stop in the box junction because of stationary vehicles ahead of them, but because they were waiting for pedestrians to clear the bit of footpath that the OP wanted to drive over.

I would have thought that was OK and not a traffic offence - but I may be wrong - or may have misunderstood what the OP has said...

Thanks again for the pointer - that set us on the right road!

Okell

@prowla -  congratulations.

Did you (or your friend) go to FTLA for advice, or fight it on your own?

prowla

Okell said:

@prowla -  congratulations.

Did you (or your friend) go to FTLA for advice, or fight it on your own?

:-)

We got some initial info via that site and then did it ourselves.

(FYI, I wasn't the driver; I was helping them because they knew I'd recently won a case against a PPC and had also previously helped them out with an issue with a flat.)