Fine for stopping in a box junction

prowla

An NTK has been issued by TfL for stopping in the pictured box junction.

The background is that the destination was the ambulance station and the intent was to turn left in and park in the circled space, which was empty at the time.

The vehicle was travelling along the main road right-left in the picture.

As can be seen, the road is marked as a red route, so no stopping is allowed and that extends back to before the preceding junction.

Further, there is a marked bus stop immediately before the entrance, which means stopping there is not allowed.

On top of that, there were pedestrians crossing the gap in the pavement between the yellow hatched areas, whom the driver had to give way to.

So, there was no practical opportunity to hold back and wait for a safe gap in the crossing pedestrians to then dart forwards and turn into the available space.

Instead the driver pulled to the left at the start of the box junction to wait whilst not blocking the road.

They've now received a fine for stopping in a box junction.

An appeal was raised to TfL, but they've rejected it and simply cited rules-are-rules "You cannot enter a box junction except when prevented from turning right, ...".

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

Can anybody advise whether there is any mileage in further appealing?

Thanks for looking!

 

theoretica

prowla said:

As can be seen, the road is marked as a red route, so no stopping is allowed and that extends back to before the preceding junction.

Further, there is a marked bus stop immediately before the entrance, which means stopping there is not allowed.

On top of that, there were pedestrians crossing the gap in the pavement between the yellow hatched areas, whom the driver had to give way to.

So, there was no practical opportunity to hold back and wait for a safe gap in the crossing pedestrians to then dart forwards and turn into the available space.

Unlike box junctions, being held up by traffic/pedestrians at bus stops and red routes is allowed and common - both happen every time the traffic light turns red on the road near me. 

Holding back, with indicator on, was what you were expected to do.

Mildly_Miffed

Red routes don't mean you can't stop where traffic and signage stop you from proceeding. Likewise bus stops.

You should have waited at the start of the box junction, left indicator on, until it was clear to turn across the pavement into one of the parking spaces on the forecourt of the ambulance station.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/7XAK2t9qB8PEntKC7

Since I presume you work for the ambulance service to be using that parking space, you can understand the reason for keeping that box junction clear...

daveyjp

Wait in the bus stop, left indicator on.

prowla

Mildly_Miffed said:

Red routes don't mean you can't stop where traffic and signage stop you from proceeding. Likewise bus stops.

You should have waited at the start of the box junction, left indicator on, until it was clear to turn across the pavement into one of the parking spaces on the forecourt of the ambulance station.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/7XAK2t9qB8PEntKC7

Since I presume you work for the ambulance service to be using that parking space, you can understand the reason for keeping that box junction clear...

Thanks, but why do you refer to me in your reply?

user1977

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

prowla

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Harsh, but every day's an education.

Car_54

prowla said:

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Harsh, but every day's an education.

Maybe so, but the driver should have been educated about red lines and box junctions if he passed a UK test in the last 40-ish years.

prowla

Car_54 said:

prowla said:

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Harsh, but every day's an education.

Maybe so, but the driver should have been educated about red lines and box junctions if he passed a UK test in the last 40-ish years.

That's not very helpful after the event, is it?

Car_54

prowla said:

Car_54 said:

prowla said:

user1977 said:

prowla said:

I think this is an unfair Catch-22 situation.

I think it's a situation where the driver needs to educate themselves about what the road markings mean.

Harsh, but every day's an education.

Maybe so, but the driver should have been educated about red lines and box junctions if he passed a UK test in the last 40-ish years.

That's not very helpful after the event, is it?

It might help if it prompts the driver to refresh his understanding of the law, before his next event. 

Herzlos

Where was the car when the pedestrians blocked the path? You could try and argue that you were already in the box junction and had to stop for safety reasons, but I'm not sure if that'd be corroborated by the camera that caught you in the box.