When do Avios flights make sense?

Langerhan

Looking at the MSE article on boosting Avios points: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/boost-avios-points/

It says that a New York return can be had for 40,000 points peak or 26,000 points off-peak. I tried with a quite a few different months and different days of the week, but the cheapest off-peak flights I could find were 50,000 points return.

What's more, when I looked at the actual prices on the site, they were always cheaper than combining Avios and cash. As an example, I searched for going 15 October and coming back 23 October. This was marked as off-peak.

The exact same flight would cost £475 if buying a standard economy ticket from the BA website... Or 50,000 Avios and £100. Or 26,000 Avios and £460. Or 19,500 Avios and £510. From then on, prices continue increasing beyond the cash cost, up to 9100 Avios and a whopping £610.

OK, so economy off-peak long haul flights aren't the way to use Avios. But what is? Are Avios much better value for people who fly business? Are they only meant to be used for flight upgrades? Or are they a loyalty scheme that's past its prime and no longer worth participating in?

Caz3121

The article you linked to is from 2021, rates have changed since then...off peak 25,000 each way and peak 30,000 so 50,000 would be correct for an off-peak return
current table in this article https://www.headforpoints.com/2024/08/29/how-many-avios-do-i-need-to-fly-to-2/

If you are talking about redemptions then, with a couple of exceptions, economy is not the way to go with Avios (unless one-way ticket needed or when flights are expensive) Business Class plus or upgrades would be far better. You also have the benefit of the flights being refundable less a small fee 

Also the £475 fare is for economy basic so hand luggage only, the Avios ticket will include 23kgs baggage so the comparable fare for your dates is £585 - still not worth using Avios for (in my opinion)

DullGreyGuy

Langerhan said:

Looking at the MSE article on boosting Avios points: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/boost-avios-points/

It says that a New York return can be had for 40,000 points peak or 26,000 points off-peak. I tried with a quite a few different months and different days of the week, but the cheapest off-peak flights I could find were 50,000 points return.

What's more, when I looked at the actual prices on the site, they were always cheaper than combining Avios and cash. As an example, I searched for going 15 October and coming back 23 October. This was marked as off-peak.

The exact same flight would cost £475 if buying a standard economy ticket from the BA website... Or 50,000 Avios and £100. Or 26,000 Avios and £460. Or 19,500 Avios and £510. From then on, prices continue increasing beyond the cash cost, up to 9100 Avios and a whopping £610.

OK, so economy off-peak long haul flights aren't the way to use Avios. But what is? Are Avios much better value for people who fly business? Are they only meant to be used for flight upgrades? Or are they a loyalty scheme that's past its prime and no longer worth participating in?

You get better value from Avios the higher the tier of flying you do. So with Economy you are using 50,000 points to save £375 so 0.75p per Avios

Flying Business on the same dates is 160,000 points and £375 but a cash ticket is £2,140 so £1,765 more or 1.1p per Avios

What the above doesn't consider is that the cash tickets are non-cancellable and cost £300 to change whereas the Avios tickets can be changed and cancelled up to the day before without a fee. Were you to compare the cash price of a fully flexible ticket it would be almost double. 

The above is also cheap in cash because its a long way off, were you going in 2 weeks the cash price for Business would be £7,750 but the Avios price would still be £375 and so 4.6p per Avios

bagand96

The Headforpoints site linked above is a great resource. 

When redeeming Avios, as you've found out economy flights are not grreaat value. You still have to pay taxes and charges (which can make up a huge chunk of a base economy fare).

Worth noting that "reward saver" flights to Europe can work out not too bad value as the taxes/fees are low. 

One advantage of Avios booking is that in addition to getting baggage, the bookings are also flexible which is a benefit. 

They can work out very good value using the Avios for an upgrade. You get an upgrade of one class, so the sweet spot is booking and paying for Premium Economy and upgrading to Business.

silvercar

Long haul business or first, short haul at peak times are the best value. The avios cost is fixed whereas the cash price increases at peak time, so the sweet spot is when the cash price would be high eg half term week to skiing resorts in Europe or thanksgiving weekend in New York.

DullGreyGuy

silvercar said:

Long haul business or first, short haul at peak times are the best value. The avios cost is fixed whereas the cash price increases at peak time, so the sweet spot is when the cash price would be high eg half term week to skiing resorts in Europe or thanksgiving weekend in New York.

Or short notice, per my example above. 

phatbear

there is more nuance to the comparison than purely looking at cost. 

as others have said avios is not best used for economy or even premium economy flights however even this isnt straight forward as you are probably looking at a time distance out from flying however if you were to look at a flight in the next 24/48hours the cash price can be shocking, last minute flights is where a lot of airlines make a lot of money however, assuming there is availability, the avios price will remain the same through out, other than the differences with peak and off peak seasons. 

I just checked and say you fancied a quick trip to New York next week from 22nd Nov to 29th Nov on BA in economy it would cost you £3030 return, thats not a typo by the way, but with avios its 50000 points and £100, for ref i just chose random dates in the near future i didnt pick them to make a point.

also you are comparing the same seats but with different conditions. 

the avios flights are fully cancellable and you will get all your points back, minus a small admin fee, this came into its own when covid was starting and i was due to fly to Japan in business and my other half got cold feet and didnt want to go, at this point flights werent being cancelled but the reasons we were going to Japan were. So we cancelled got our points/tax and upgrade vouchers back and had to pay a small admin fee. If i had paid cash, given it would have cost thousands we would have lost almost everything.

With the right credit card and chucking everything through the card, for example i pay my council tax on an Avios card, you can get upgrade vouchers, the likes of which i will be using when i fly to KL and back in a couple of weeks.

jimi_man

phatbear said:

there is more nuance to the comparison than purely looking at cost. 

as others have said avios is not best used for economy or even premium economy flights however even this isnt straight forward as you are probably looking at a time distance out from flying however if you were to look at a flight in the next 24/48hours the cash price can be shocking, last minute flights is where a lot of airlines make a lot of money however, assuming there is availability, the avios price will remain the same through out, other than the differences with peak and off peak seasons. 

I just checked and say you fancied a quick trip to New York next week from 22nd Nov to 29th Nov on BA in economy it would cost you £3030 return, thats not a typo by the way, but with avios its 50000 points and £100, for ref i just chose random dates in the near future i didnt pick them to make a point.

also you are comparing the same seats but with different conditions. 

the avios flights are fully cancellable and you will get all your points back, minus a small admin fee, this came into its own when covid was starting and i was due to fly to Japan in business and my other half got cold feet and didnt want to go, at this point flights werent being cancelled but the reasons we were going to Japan were. So we cancelled got our points/tax and upgrade vouchers back and had to pay a small admin fee. If i had paid cash, given it would have cost thousands we would have lost almost everything.

With the right credit card and chucking everything through the card, for example i pay my council tax on an Avios card, you can get upgrade vouchers, the likes of which i will be using when i fly to KL and back in a couple of weeks.

Not quite sure where you got £3030, BA.com shows £600 or so for an Economy fare?

However I totally agree with your point, last minute bookings (with suitable availability) can be where the value is at. 

It’s probably also worth pointing out that New York is a bad example in respect of comparison with Avios/cash fares since because there are so many seats every day with many different airlines so there is fierce competition, the cash fares never get that expensive. 

But in relation to places like S Africa where there is little competition the fares are far higher (£900 minimum to Cape Town for example - at any time). So an Avios fare can offer savings. 

Business fares are where the value is and other airlines can offer excellent value. Madrid to New York in Business on Iberia is 34,000 each way so at 1p per Avios plus taxes it’s around £850 return. A cheap positioning flight and you’re getting very good value. 

And yes with two for one vouchers the savings are even better. We’ve just used one for Club return to S Africa 

As mentioned using them for Short Haul can be good but you need to work out the most cost effective fare. The 50p one usually works out as quite expensive. 

phatbear

jimi_man said:

phatbear said:

there is more nuance to the comparison than purely looking at cost. 

as others have said avios is not best used for economy or even premium economy flights however even this isnt straight forward as you are probably looking at a time distance out from flying however if you were to look at a flight in the next 24/48hours the cash price can be shocking, last minute flights is where a lot of airlines make a lot of money however, assuming there is availability, the avios price will remain the same through out, other than the differences with peak and off peak seasons. 

I just checked and say you fancied a quick trip to New York next week from 22nd Nov to 29th Nov on BA in economy it would cost you £3030 return, thats not a typo by the way, but with avios its 50000 points and £100, for ref i just chose random dates in the near future i didnt pick them to make a point.

also you are comparing the same seats but with different conditions. 

the avios flights are fully cancellable and you will get all your points back, minus a small admin fee, this came into its own when covid was starting and i was due to fly to Japan in business and my other half got cold feet and didnt want to go, at this point flights werent being cancelled but the reasons we were going to Japan were. So we cancelled got our points/tax and upgrade vouchers back and had to pay a small admin fee. If i had paid cash, given it would have cost thousands we would have lost almost everything.

With the right credit card and chucking everything through the card, for example i pay my council tax on an Avios card, you can get upgrade vouchers, the likes of which i will be using when i fly to KL and back in a couple of weeks.

Not quite sure where you got £3030, BA.com shows £600 or so for an Economy fare?

However I totally agree with your point, last minute bookings (with suitable availability) can be where the value is at. 

It’s probably also worth pointing out that New York is a bad example in respect of comparison with Avios/cash fares since because there are so many seats every day with many different airlines so there is fierce competition, the cash fares never get that expensive. 

But in relation to places like S Africa where there is little competition the fares are far higher (£900 minimum to Cape Town for example - at any time). So an Avios fare can offer savings. 

Business fares are where the value is and other airlines can offer excellent value. Madrid to New York in Business on Iberia is 34,000 each way so at 1p per Avios plus taxes it’s around £850 return. A cheap positioning flight and you’re getting very good value. 

And yes with two for one vouchers the savings are even better. We’ve just used one for Club return to S Africa 

As mentioned using them for Short Haul can be good but you need to work out the most cost effective fare. The 50p one usually works out as quite expensive. 

My mistake i had my app set to flex fares

Langerhan

Thanks guys - really interesting range of examples here! Sounds like Avios makes more sense for business and first class flights, flights booked for the very near future, seat upgrades, and unusual destinations. I'm obviously not the target market for them, but good to know they do work for some people.