P45 issues

Kai77

I'm trying to file my self assessment form.

My main employer gave me a P45 when I left but the leaving date given on it falls in a different tax year to the final payments (which were provided after I left in the new tax year).

Two contacts at HMRC (one a specialist apparently) plus my accountant has said this is wrong because it will show payment for a year when I wasn't employed by them and that I should also have had a P60 for the tax year I actually left. However the employer has said they spoke to their HMRC contact who said no P60 was required for the year I left and the P45 for the subsequent year is correct.

Any thoughts on what to do and/can anyone share the law/rules around this point?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Kai77 said:

I'm trying to file my self assessment form.

My main employer gave me a P45 when I left but the leaving date given on it falls in a different tax year to the final payments (which were provided after I left in the new tax year).

Two contacts at HMRC (one a specialist apparently) plus my accountant has said this is wrong because it will show payment for a year when I wasn't employed by them and that I should also have had a P60 for the tax year I actually left. However the employer has said they spoke to their HMRC contact who said no P60 was required for the year I left and the P45 for the subsequent year is correct.

Any thoughts on what to do and/can anyone share the law/rules around this point?

Your post is a little confusing.

You don't say but I'm assuming it's your 2023-24 return.

If you were still employed at the 5 April 2024 and you had been paid some taxable earnings in the 2023-24 tax year then I think you should have been provided with a P60 for 2023-24.

If you haven't been paid in the 2023-24 tax year then why do you think your employer should have provided you with a P60 for 2023-24?

Does the leaving date on the P45 reflect the tax year your final payments were received in?  

It has been known for employers to mix things up when the tax year changes, for example they pay you on say 15 April 2024, (in month 1 of the 2024-25 tax year) but send you a P45 with a leaving date of 31 March 2024, despite that being in the previous tax year.  It is the date of payment which is important.

Have you looked at what is shown on your Personal Tax Account?

Kai77

Sorry! It's broadly how you've described it.

I left in March 2024. Payments were made in mid April after I'd left. P45 relates to these payments only.

I was an employee in the 2023/2024 tax year up until I left (and therefore paid during that period too).

I'll take a look at my Personal Tax Account, what should I be looking for?

sheramber

If you left in March you were not employed by them on 5 April.

f you’re working for an employer on 5 April they must give you a P60. They must provide this by 31 May, on paper or electronically.

https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d/p60

Kai77

sheramber said:

If you left in March you were not employed by them on 5 April.

f you’re working for an employer on 5 April they must give you a P60. They must provide this by 31 May, on paper or electronically.

https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d/p60

Thanks, that's not in question. HMRC are saying that my leaving date on P45 (March 2024) can't be a different (and earlier) tax year to the payments on the P45, which all relate to the new tax year (2024/2025).

HMRC seem to think I should have been given a P60 for the 2023/2024 tax year as I was still employed and paid by them then. At the moment I have neither a P60 or P45 to cover that year?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Kai77 said:

Sorry! It's broadly how you've described it.

I left in March 2024. Payments were made in mid April after I'd left. P45 relates to these payments only.

I was an employee in the 2023/2024 tax year up until I left (and therefore paid during that period too).

I'll take a look at my Personal Tax Account, what should I be looking for?

Your employer is almost certainly wrong.

The fact they have given you a P45 indicates they did not treat those payments in 2024-25 as a "payment after leaving" (no P45 is issued for those, you just get a letter or similar evidence, not a second P45).

So if it wasn't a "payment after leaving" that means you were still employed on 5 April 2024 and could expect to get a P60 reporting your earnings to 5 April 2024.

Unless you received a P45 with details of your earnings to March 2024 and a second P45 was issued by mistake?

Out of interest what is preventing you from using the information on your payslips (for 2023-24) when completing your Self Assessment return 🤔

tizerbelle

Do you have the payslip for the last time that you were paid in the 2023/24 tax year?  That will show the total gross and taxable pay received within the year and the total tax paid - look for "to date" or YTD.  Those figures will be your taxable income details for that employment in 23/24. 

Although you left the company in March 24, your final pay was paid in the 24/25 tax year and so the P45 is correct in only listing the amount you received in April as the income from that employment as tax is due on the payment/processing date.  This final bit of income will go towards your 24/25 self-assessment.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

tizerbelle said:

Do you have the payslip for the last time that you were paid in the 2023/24 tax year?  That will show the total gross and taxable pay received within the year and the total tax paid - look for "to date" or YTD.  Those figures will be your taxable income details for that employment in 23/24. 

Although you left the company in March 24, your final pay was paid in the 24/25 tax year and so the P45 is correct in only listing the amount you received in April as the income from that employment as tax is due on the payment/processing date.  This final bit of income will go towards your 24/25 self-assessment.

I agree with all of that.

But if the bit highlighted in bold is true then a P60 for 2023-24 should have been provided.

tizerbelle

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

tizerbelle said:

Do you have the payslip for the last time that you were paid in the 2023/24 tax year?  That will show the total gross and taxable pay received within the year and the total tax paid - look for "to date" or YTD.  Those figures will be your taxable income details for that employment in 23/24. 

Although you left the company in March 24, your final pay was paid in the 24/25 tax year and so the P45 is correct in only listing the amount you received in April as the income from that employment as tax is due on the payment/processing date.  This final bit of income will go towards your 24/25 self-assessment.

I agree with all of that.

But if the bit highlighted in bold is true then a P60 for 2023-24 should have been provided.

It's an idiosyncrasy in the P60 process.  When you generate the P60's you look at who was employed on the 5 April, OP wasn't employed on the 5 April - they left in March ergo not entitled to a P60.  Yes they were paid after 5 April but still being on the payroll system pending final payment is not the same as still being employed on the 5 April. 

Some employers will generate a P60 for those few employees that fall in the gap, some won't.  But the simple solution rather than bashing your head against a bureaucratic brick wall is just get the figures from the last payslip in the tax year.  

Kai77

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

tizerbelle said:

Do you have the payslip for the last time that you were paid in the 2023/24 tax year?  That will show the total gross and taxable pay received within the year and the total tax paid - look for "to date" or YTD.  Those figures will be your taxable income details for that employment in 23/24. 

Although you left the company in March 24, your final pay was paid in the 24/25 tax year and so the P45 is correct in only listing the amount you received in April as the income from that employment as tax is due on the payment/processing date.  This final bit of income will go towards your 24/25 self-assessment.

I agree with all of that.

But if the bit highlighted in bold is true then a P60 for 2023-24 should have been provided.

Thank you yes the only payment in April was the pay listed on the P45 and that's exactly why I think I should have received a P60 for the previous tax year. HMRC suggested the P45 itself was wrong for listing a 2023/24 leave date on a 2024/25 payment P45.

I am trying to understand if the P60 for 2023/24 year is necessary or not. They said they could issue a Statement of Earnings instead (and I think it's on my last payslip before I left too)?

And whether, as HMRC seemed to suggest, the P45 needs to be reissued?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

tizerbelle said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

tizerbelle said:

Do you have the payslip for the last time that you were paid in the 2023/24 tax year?  That will show the total gross and taxable pay received within the year and the total tax paid - look for "to date" or YTD.  Those figures will be your taxable income details for that employment in 23/24. 

Although you left the company in March 24, your final pay was paid in the 24/25 tax year and so the P45 is correct in only listing the amount you received in April as the income from that employment as tax is due on the payment/processing date.  This final bit of income will go towards your 24/25 self-assessment.

I agree with all of that.

But if the bit highlighted in bold is true then a P60 for 2023-24 should have been provided.

It's an idiosyncrasy in the P60 process.  When you generate the P60's you look at who was employed on the 5 April, OP wasn't employed on the 5 April - they left in March ergo not entitled to a P60.  Yes they were paid after 5 April but still being on the payroll system pending final payment is not the same as still being employed on the 5 April. 

Some employers will generate a P60 for those few employees that fall in the gap, some won't.  But the simple solution rather than bashing your head against a bureaucratic brick wall is just get the figures from the last payslip in the tax year.  

It's really an error by the employer.

I totally agree about the solution however if no P45 was issued with the pay details on for the 2023-24 earnings the op is still employed (from a bureaucratic perspective) and should have been provided with a P60.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/67

If, as you say they weren't employed then a P45 should have been issued with the 2023-24 earnings details on.  And the payment in 2024-25 would have been a payment after leaving.

Maybe our resident (retired) Inspector of Taxes will give their opinion in due course 🙂