Garage faulty part - Who is responsible?

FentonBeesley

A_Geordie said:

I am no car mechanic but making a statement that almost all alternators are conditioned is a bit of a broad brush statement. Whilst it may be true, I would expect that when I am having my car fixed, parts are replaced as new, not second hand or re-conditioned which is another way of saying the part is second hand/used. This would be especially the case if I wasn't asked and it wasn't listed on the invoice as used or reconditioned - but of course in some cases for really old cars that is inevitable. 

The section in the Sale of Goods Act is section 14: Sale of Goods Act 1979

A waiting time of 6 months for a warranty claim to be processed is ridiculous and I would be inclined to write to the garage and tell them they have had ample time to provide a refund within the next 7 days and if they don't then you will take the next steps of commencing legal proceedings. Of course that depends on your girlfriend's appetite to take it that far and there is the risk that the garage could just shut down and go insolvent and then pop up elsewhere.

As an aside, your girlfriend (or perhaps on the advice of you or someone else) shortchanged herself because she could have claimed not only the cost of replacing the alternator with a brand new one, but also the cost of installing it at another garage. 

Totally agree, just because it may be been reconditioned, should not mean it’s of a poorer quality.

Thank you for providing the relevant section of SoDA, I have going to have a close look and draft a letter/email later today and this will be useful.

I’m guessing by legal proceedings this would initially be a small claims court? At this stage if a £50 odd fee for launching a claim is what it takes then I’ll just front it principally. This is a very successful local garage and they won’t be going under any time soon. 

When you say shortchanging oneself, at what stage could we have requested refund for works carried out elsewhere? What ought we have done differently? 

Thank you for your advice! 

A_Geordie

There is no such thing as a 'small claims court' rather a claim would be issued in the county court and following the filing of the claim and the defence a judge would allocate the claim to a 'track'  (small claims, fast track and multi-track) depending on a number of factors such as complexity, value etc. For claims under £10,000 a judge would almost always allocate to the small claims tracks unless there is a good reason why it should be moved to another track. 

Court fees depend on the value of the claim but strictly speaking, there are two fees that are payable. The first fee is the issue fee, that's to basically start the process and get your claim moving along. The second fee is the hearing fee, which is payable at a certain stage of proceedings if neither party has settled the claim - If you search for EX50 Fees you will find a .gov link explaining the issue and hearing fees depending on the value of the claim. 

FentonBeesley said:

When you say shortchanging oneself, at what stage could we have requested refund for works carried out elsewhere? What ought we have done differently? 

The starting point for any breach of contract is to figure out what it would cost to put you back in the same position if the breach never happened. So in this case I would be thinking: (1) cost of replacement alternator (2) cost of labour to fit the alternator (obtaining 3 quotes for an average price is sufficient) and (3) any other costs or expenses that have resulted from the breach such as having to hire a car or public transport costs in the interim or any loss of business, revenue, profits etc. by not being able to use the van for work purposes (4) any other costs or expenses incurred trying to mitigate the losses caused by the delay.

If this did go the legal route, your girlfriend could still take a punt and include additional losses but don't be surprised if the garage said that the agreed 'settlement' was a refund of the alternator only subject to the warranty being accepted (which they claim it has done so your girlfriend should have been paid). It will add to the court fees payable but if successful, those court fees are recoverable as part of the costs at the end of the hearing. She is not obliged to claim any additional costs or expenses but if she doesn't she won't be able to bring a claim at a later date because they should have been claimed at the same time. 

FentonBeesley

A_Geordie said:

There is no such thing as a 'small claims court' rather a claim would be issued in the county court and following the filing of the claim and the defence a judge would allocate the claim to a 'track'  (small claims, fast track and multi-track) depending on a number of factors such as complexity, value etc. For claims under £10,000 a judge would almost always allocate to the small claims tracks unless there is a good reason why it should be moved to another track. 

Court fees depend on the value of the claim but strictly speaking, there are two fees that are payable. The first fee is the issue fee, that's to basically start the process and get your claim moving along. The second fee is the hearing fee, which is payable at a certain stage of proceedings if neither party has settled the claim - If you search for EX50 Fees you will find a .gov link explaining the issue and hearing fees depending on the value of the claim. 

FentonBeesley said:

When you say shortchanging oneself, at what stage could we have requested refund for works carried out elsewhere? What ought we have done differently? 

The starting point for any breach of contract is to figure out what it would cost to put you back in the same position if the breach never happened. So in this case I would be thinking: (1) cost of replacement alternator (2) cost of labour to fit the alternator (obtaining 3 quotes for an average price is sufficient) and (3) any other costs or expenses that have resulted from the breach such as having to hire a car or public transport costs in the interim or any loss of business, revenue, profits etc. by not being able to use the van for work purposes (4) any other costs or expenses incurred trying to mitigate the losses caused by the delay.

If this did go the legal route, your girlfriend could still take a punt and include additional losses but don't be surprised if the garage said that the agreed 'settlement' was a refund of the alternator only subject to the warranty being accepted (which they claim it has done so your girlfriend should have been paid). It will add to the court fees payable but if successful, those court fees are recoverable as part of the costs at the end of the hearing. She is not obliged to claim any additional costs or expenses but if she doesn't she won't be able to bring a claim at a later date because they should have been claimed at the same time. 

Thank you so much for taking the effort, that's all very useful advice and it'll strongly inform my response to them going forward. 

I called them today to ask for another update, can't even remember how many times I've called. Once again, "I'm not the person dealing with this" etc. I'm going to try again tomorrow before emailing them my demands of refund, and failure to do so will result in launching a claim with the county court. 

It's worth noting that the warranty hasn't as yet been accepted by the supplier, this is part of the issue. Supposedly, the garage sent it off and have perennially been waiting for its approval. As an update for this issue, I just called a local car parts dealer who say that the warranty procedure usually takes about 3-6 weeks, which could be irrelevant here but interesting nonetheless. 

Anyway, I will try my luck and report back! 

Thanks again, greatly appreciate your time taken. 

Jumblebumble

born_again said:

FentonBeesley said:

Baldytyke88 said:

FentonBeesley said:

Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

Since the part is not new, not sure what your rights will be.

You state it was done around 12 months ago, a sizable amount of the cost will be the Labour from a different garage, you will be unlikely to get that back.

We only want the cost of the part back at this point. Also, we weren't aware that they are mostly reconditioned now, even so, that shouldn't affect its efficacy. 

These types of parts have been pretty much exchange (reconditioned, which is basically a new item aside from exterior parts) for as long as I can remember to keep costs down.
Or you buy a new one at a much higher price.

Surely this depends on who is doing the reconditioning
Some rascals think that a wipe down with brake cleaner counts as recondition
I know from my days of repairing the odd 2cv that the alternators had an external removable brush pack that could be bought for a few quid.
I would imagine many a 2cv alternator was supplied as reconditioned having had nothing more than the brushes renewed. These would be far from being basically a new item.
As far as a warranty approval taking 6 months to be approved I fear you are being taken for a ride and the garage will hope you will eventually go away

born_again

Jumblebumble said:

born_again said:

FentonBeesley said:

Baldytyke88 said:

FentonBeesley said:

Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

Since the part is not new, not sure what your rights will be.

You state it was done around 12 months ago, a sizable amount of the cost will be the Labour from a different garage, you will be unlikely to get that back.

We only want the cost of the part back at this point. Also, we weren't aware that they are mostly reconditioned now, even so, that shouldn't affect its efficacy. 

These types of parts have been pretty much exchange (reconditioned, which is basically a new item aside from exterior parts) for as long as I can remember to keep costs down.
Or you buy a new one at a much higher price.

Surely this depends on who is doing the reconditioning
Some rascals think that a wipe down with brake cleaner counts as recondition
I know from my days of repairing the odd 2cv that the alternators had an external removable brush pack that could be bought for a few quid.
I would imagine many a 2cv alternator was supplied as reconditioned having had nothing more than the brushes renewed. These would be far from being basically a new item.
As far as a warranty approval taking 6 months to be approved I fear you are being taken for a ride and the garage will hope you will eventually go away

These types of exchanges were always from the manufacture. Their way of keeping costs down on such consumable parts.

Baldytyke88

born_again said:

These types of exchanges were always from the manufacture. Their way of keeping costs down on such consumable parts.

An alternator will be a matter of checking the bearings and the bushes, not done by the manufacturer of the vehicle.

born_again

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

These types of exchanges were always from the manufacture. Their way of keeping costs down on such consumable parts.

An alternator will be a matter of checking the bearings and the bushes, not done by the manufacturer of the vehicle.

Manufacture of the part not the car manufacture...