Garage faulty part - Who is responsible?

FentonBeesley

Hello all,

My girlfriend’s van needed a new alternator around 12 months ago and so we took it to a local garage, they carried out the work and things were fine initially. Fast forward to January 2024 and she starts having problems again, I contacted the garage to take a look but they were full for weeks so took it to an another trusted garage. Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

We went back to the original garage, part in hand, explained the situation, and asked for a refund since the part ought to be under warranty. They agreed subject to a successful warranty claim and took it off our hands. They sent the part to a local vehicular electronics place for testing who confirmed that it was faulty, and so now the garage claim they have sent the part back pending warranty.

It’s now over 6 months since we started this process, and despite calls to the garage, they say they can’t refund me until the warranty is approved. But the part was proven to be faulty by this third party electrics place. The guy is very curt down the phone and I wonder if we’re just being fobbed off at this point.

My question is this, can the garage withhold the refund from us based on this warranty claim even though they are the vendor of the part in this case? Are they responsible for the faulty part?

And finally, if they are responsible, what part of consumer rights literature could I quote in correspondence with them?

Many thanks

powerful_Rogue

Is the van used for your girlfriends business?

FentonBeesley

powerful_Rogue said:

Is the van used for your girlfriends business?

It is, yes. 

Alderbank

Apart from the title this post seems to be identical to your other post 'Faulty Part - What are my rights?'

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6555297/faulty-part-what-are-my-rights#latest

You ask what part of consumer rights literature could you quote in correspondence with them. Unfortunately you, or rather your girlfriend, can't quote any part of consumer rights literature. This is because she uses the van for her business and therefore she is not a 'consumer'.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 does apply however and gives her broadly similar rights. She is entitled to get what she agreed to pay for from the seller, regardless of what arrangements the seller has with their supplier.

You mention a warranty. Warranties are not covered either by CRA or SoGA. Who is the warranty with - the seller and their supplier or the seller and your girlfriend? What exactly are the written terms of the warranty?

How exactly did the seller describe the alternator in the bill of sale?

FentonBeesley

Alderbank said:

Apart from the title this post seems to be identical to your other post 'Faulty Part - What are my rights?'

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6555297/faulty-part-what-are-my-rights#latest

You ask what part of consumer rights literature could you quote in correspondence with them. Unfortunately you, or rather your girlfriend, can't quote any part of consumer rights literature. This is because she uses the van for her business and therefore she is not a 'consumer'.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 does apply however and gives her broadly similar rights. She is entitled to get what she agreed to pay for from the seller, regardless of what arrangements the seller has with their supplier.

You mention a warranty. Warranties are not covered either by CRA or SoGA. Who is the warranty with - the seller and their supplier or the seller and your girlfriend? What exactly are the written terms of the warranty?

How exactly did the seller describe the alternator in the bill of sale?

I do apologise, to be perfectly honest I had forgotten about my previous post and will delete accordingly. 

The van is used for her business, but is also her personal vehicle, is this a distinction that makes a difference? The invoice is directed at her personally and not the business. Not sure that makes a difference?

I don't have access to the warranty itself, however, upon returning the part to the garage, they claimed that the part would be covered by the manufacturer's warranty due to its failing. The warranty presumably is between the seller and their supplier hence why they have started the claim process with their supplier. 

On the invoice from the garage, the part is simply listed as 'Alternator', there is no mention of its condition nor its manufacturer. 

Alderbank

The definition of “Consumer” is an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession. If she works largely from home and just uses the van to go to a monthly farmers' market for instance, so that her private mileage is much more than her business mileage, she might be able to claim she is a consumer.

The 'warranty' might not be very helpful, for example many warranties expressly exclude business use. She might be better to claim simply that the alternator had not lasted a reasonable length of time (mid November until January - about six weeks?).

FentonBeesley

Alderbank said:

The definition of “Consumer” is an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession. If she works largely from home and just uses the van to go to a monthly farmers' market for instance, so that her private mileage is much more than her business mileage, she might be able to claim she is a consumer.

The 'warranty' might not be very helpful, for example many warranties expressly exclude business use. She might be better to claim simply that the alternator had not lasted a reasonable length of time (mid November until January - about six weeks?).

Okay, thank you. In this instance she would not be a consumer. Seems odd that this would affect the rights of purchasing a product not fit for purpose but there we go. 

If we do do down the part not lasting a reasonable length of time, do we have no legal leverage since the vehicle is a business vehicle? The garage are not aware of this fact, as far as they are concerned we are just a regular customer. If hypothetically she were to claim as a consumer, an she feels that the part did not last for the reasonable length of time, what is our best way of obtaining a refund?

Edit: A better way of asking the above, what part of the SoGA protects us from the product not lasting 'a reasonable amount of time'? Regardless of the warranty claim by them to their supplier, she has been subject to considerable extra costs through not only a new part, but the labour from the new garage, and also missing out on a surcharge on the alternator because of the copper recycling associated with it. We simply want the refund on the part. 

Baldytyke88

FentonBeesley said:

Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

Since the part is not new, not sure what your rights will be.

You state it was done around 12 months ago, a sizable amount of the cost will be the Labour from a different garage, you will be unlikely to get that back.

FentonBeesley

Baldytyke88 said:

FentonBeesley said:

Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

Since the part is not new, not sure what your rights will be.

You state it was done around 12 months ago, a sizable amount of the cost will be the Labour from a different garage, you will be unlikely to get that back.

We only want the cost of the part back at this point. Also, we weren't aware that they are mostly reconditioned now, even so, that shouldn't affect its efficacy. 

A_Geordie

I am no car mechanic but making a statement that almost all alternators are conditioned is a bit of a broad brush statement. Whilst it may be true, I would expect that when I am having my car fixed, parts are replaced as new, not second hand or re-conditioned which is another way of saying the part is second hand/used. This would be especially the case if I wasn't asked and it wasn't listed on the invoice as used or reconditioned - but of course in some cases for really old cars that is inevitable. 

The section in the Sale of Goods Act is section 14: Sale of Goods Act 1979

A waiting time of 6 months for a warranty claim to be processed is ridiculous and I would be inclined to write to the garage and tell them they have had ample time to provide a refund within the next 7 days and if they don't then you will take the next steps of commencing legal proceedings. Of course that depends on your girlfriend's appetite to take it that far and there is the risk that the garage could just shut down and go insolvent and then pop up elsewhere.

As an aside, your girlfriend (or perhaps on the advice of you or someone else) shortchanged herself because she could have claimed not only the cost of replacing the alternator with a brand new one, but also the cost of installing it at another garage. 

born_again

FentonBeesley said:

Baldytyke88 said:

FentonBeesley said:

Their opinion was that the alternator had gone and it wasn’t uncommon since they are all reconditioned parts these days.

Since the part is not new, not sure what your rights will be.

You state it was done around 12 months ago, a sizable amount of the cost will be the Labour from a different garage, you will be unlikely to get that back.

We only want the cost of the part back at this point. Also, we weren't aware that they are mostly reconditioned now, even so, that shouldn't affect its efficacy. 

These types of parts have been pretty much exchange (reconditioned, which is basically a new item aside from exterior parts) for as long as I can remember to keep costs down.
Or you buy a new one at a much higher price.