TFL, 2x ULEZ fines, PCN's sent to old address, £710 debt

loftymcloafbats

Good morning,

I would be incredibly grateful for your help please- it has caused me a significant amount of anxiety to today receive a letter in the post from Bristow and Sutor requesting a payment of £710.

I thought it was a scam, but searched the TFL PCN website and it appears that on April 20th 2024 I accidentally entered a ULEZ zone on Wright Way, IVO Heathrow Airport. I had no idea that I had entered it or that my car was not ULEZ compliant, as I infrequently drive near London.

I was not aware that a PCN had been issued. I moved house in January 2024 and updated my driving licence with the DVLA, but I cannot find any email receipt to say that I also changed my V5C so I believe it may have escaped my attention- I am aware that it is a legal requirement to update it but alas, I apparently may not have done it. I had post-forwarding set up for 3 months from my old address, but the date of the offence was 11 days after this finished. I have since sold the car (May 2024) so can’t confirm what details the DVLA held easily. The first I knew of this offence was today.

I contacted TFL and stated that had I known the PCN had been issued that I would have paid it in full as it was a genuine mistake. They said that I need to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre- I have perused their section on the gov.uk website, but don't feel much closer to an answer.

Is my best course of action to fill out a PE3 form? I have tried today but not had much luck with finding a solicitor.

I received the following letters today (8th Nov) to my current home address (as per my Driving Licence) in the post together in 1 envelope, and would be so grateful for any advice. I cannot afford £710. Thank you so much for taking a look. Kind regards   

*update* I have just had it pointed out that this is for 2 separate PCN’s. I was away over midnight so must have picked up another on the way home. There is only reference to one PCN but when I go to the B&S website and put the case number in it shows another linked case. 

(Image removed by Forum Team)(Image removed by Forum Team)

Keep_pedalling

You would be better off posting over on the FTLA forum as they are the experts on these issues.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/

loftymcloafbats

Thank you- I did also post there but was hoping to get as much advice as possible in the shortest amount of time, as I only have 3 days to respond/make a decision!

Mildly_Miffed

Wright Way is the airport western perimeter road.

I'm guessing you joined it from either the T5 junction of the M25 passing this sign before the roundabout giving you a last chance to not enter...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZYUXcumo3Bu5gZ4b9
...or from the A4, passing a number of signs, the last of which was this one before a similar junction giving you a non-entry option...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7S1q4BjJVgSXaYRC6

So saying you "had no idea" you were entering suggests you were not paying sufficient attention to signage.

Likewise, it's your responsibility to ensure that you are aware of your vehicle's compliance status using the checker available.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/

Finally, the only way in which they can possibly contact you is via the address on the V5C at the date of the entry. 

This is not just a civil penalty any more. TFL have already taken it to court and received a judgement against you. You have no realistic defence against the original penalty.

You may be able to apply to get the county court judgements for each of the non-payments to be set aside, but the court fee is £303 per judgement, and you will still have to pay the £280 civil penalties that you originally owed before the non-payment was taken to court.
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/cancel-the-judgment

LightFlare

loftymcloafbats said:

Good morning,

I would be incredibly grateful for your help please- it has caused me a significant amount of anxiety to today receive a letter in the post from Bristow and Sutor requesting a payment of £710.

I thought it was a scam, but searched the TFL PCN website and it appears that on April 20th 2024 I accidentally entered a ULEZ zone on Wright Way, IVO Heathrow Airport. I had no idea that I had entered it or that my car was not ULEZ compliant, as I infrequently drive near London.

I was not aware that a PCN had been issued. I moved house in January 2024 and updated my driving licence with the DVLA, but I cannot find any email receipt to say that I also changed my V5C so I believe it may have escaped my attention- I am aware that it is a legal requirement to update it but alas, I apparently may not have done it. I had post-forwarding set up for 3 months from my old address, but the date of the offence was 11 days after this finished. I have since sold the car (May 2024) so can’t confirm what details the DVLA held easily. The first I knew of this offence was today.

I contacted TFL and stated that had I known the PCN had been issued that I would have paid it in full as it was a genuine mistake. They said that I need to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre- I have perused their section on the gov.uk website, but don't feel much closer to an answer.

Is my best course of action to fill out a PE3 form? I have tried today but not had much luck with finding a solicitor.

I received the following letters today (8th Nov) to my current home address (as per my Driving Licence) in the post together in 1 envelope, and would be so grateful for any advice. I cannot afford £710. Thank you so much for taking a look. Kind regards   

*update* I have just had it pointed out that this is for 2 separate PCN’s. I was away over midnight so must have picked up another on the way home. There is only reference to one PCN but when I go to the B&S website and put the case number in it shows another linked case. 

What address is on the actual document you have in your possession ?

when you update your address, you will receive a new document in the post - did this happen ?

Might be worth checking your licence online to check you havent got any points as well for other unknown offences

Mildly_Miffed

LightFlare said:

What address is on the actual document you have in your possession ?

The OP sold the car six months ago, after the ULEZ entry.

LightFlare

Mildly_Miffed said:

LightFlare said:

What address is on the actual document you have in your possession ?

The OP sold the car six months ago, after the ULEZ entry.

Missed that thanks — first thing that springs to mind is if the V5 was actually changed when the car was sold as well.

Whilst this doesn’t help with the immediate problem - there may be more in the pipeline

jimjames

Mildly_Miffed said:

So saying you "had no idea" you were entering suggests you were not paying sufficient attention to signage.

I disagree. It is incredibly easy to not realise that you are/have entered a ULEZ area and not realise a payment is needed. At least some of the signs are tiny to the extent of not being visible/readable especially in the dark. I've now setup the Autopay to avoid this and interesting how many times you can enter ULEZ without having to pay if your car is on the system. 

kinger101

Been there, done that and bought the t-shirt.  

My lesson was
(A) update V5C asap on moving. 
(B) it's worth paying for a longer mail redirection.

You have no mitigation.  

Mildly_Miffed

jimjames said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

So saying you "had no idea" you were entering suggests you were not paying sufficient attention to signage.

I disagree. It is incredibly easy to not realise that you are/have entered a ULEZ area and not realise a payment is needed. At least some of the signs are tiny to the extent of not being visible/readable especially in the dark. I've now setup the Autopay to avoid this and interesting how many times you can enter ULEZ without having to pay if your car is on the system. 

Less focus on the satnav, more focus on the outside world.

Shimrod

Mildly_Miffed said:

jimjames said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

So saying you "had no idea" you were entering suggests you were not paying sufficient attention to signage.

I disagree. It is incredibly easy to not realise that you are/have entered a ULEZ area and not realise a payment is needed. At least some of the signs are tiny to the extent of not being visible/readable especially in the dark. I've now setup the Autopay to avoid this and interesting how many times you can enter ULEZ without having to pay if your car is on the system. 

Less focus on the satnav, more focus on the outside world.

It's just not that simple. I had a ULEZ fine a couple of years ago. I don't live in London so was not aware the zone had been recently expanded.
I had plenty of focus on the outside world as well, checking traffic lights, other traffic, road signs for the right filter lane and cyclists with no lights in the dark. With all that going on ityeast to miss a ULEZ sign especially when you don't know to look for one