Luton airport - have to accept Ts&Cs or can't pay

robatwork

This isn't about a ticket, just a moan about the way you need to pay. I've just used Luton Airport's express drop off. 

There's no barrier, just ANPR and you need to pay afterwards. On the website you're presented with this screen:



As you can see you can't proceed without ticking the box. This isn't the way transactions should work - if you disagree with Ts&Cs you typically can withdraw from the transaction. But without accepting these, there's no way to proceed. 

To continue my thoughts logically, any Ts&Cs should surely be obvious when/prior to driving in. Not 8 pages after you've already used the service. 

eskbanker

robatwork said:

This isn't the way transactions should work - if you disagree with Ts&Cs you typically can withdraw from the transaction.

Depends how you define 'transaction' here - you've already used the service and are simply paying for it, so why would you expect to be able to withdraw from payment?

fisherjim

eskbanker said:

robatwork said:

This isn't the way transactions should work - if you disagree with Ts&Cs you typically can withdraw from the transaction.

Depends how you define 'transaction' here - you've already used the service and are simply paying for it, so why would you expect to be able to withdraw from payment?

When you enter into a contract you should be able to read that before agreeing to it and if you don't you walk or in this case drive away.

The BPA COP allows for consideration time to read and agree to a parking contract or leave, they and their members spout on about this when challenged, but in this case there is no consideration time to read and agree/disagree to the contract their terms give no consideration period:

Up to 5 minutes £5

Their terms also state:

3. Exit the area promptly, within 20 minutes to avoid penalty charges

The dimwits at APCOA are not an authority and cannot issue penalty charges, so why would you agree to that, also if you are trapped into driving through this area that has no barrier it is entrapment.

eskbanker

Yes, just to be clear, I'm not disputing that Ts & Cs should be clearly published prior to using the service, but was making a different point about OP's apparent expectation that there should be some meaningful opportunity to walk away from payment after the event.

LDast

If you don't agree to their Ts&Cs, don't tick the box and wait for the inevitable NtK which you appeal with the following words as the Keeper and you don't waste the £5 rip off fee either:

I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Luton Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Luton Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

fisherjim

The charges are up to 5 mins £5 up to 20 mins £1 per minute then they claim they can dish out a penalty charge.

If you go to pay and you have been there 21 mins why would you agree to that rip off rubbish.

The whole set up is a total rip off and wrong and should not work like this.

robatwork

eskbanker said:

robatwork said:

This isn't the way transactions should work - if you disagree with Ts&Cs you typically can withdraw from the transaction.

Depends how you define 'transaction' here - you've already used the service and are simply paying for it, so why would you expect to be able to withdraw from payment?

You're inferring something that simply isn't there. I don't want to avoid payment, I just think it's !!!!!!-about-face. 

LDast

Why are you even bothering to try and pay it when the above provided appeal gets it cancelled every time!

robatwork

LDast said:

Why are you even bothering to try and pay it when the above provided appeal gets it cancelled every time!

Are you speaking from personal experience? 

If so, what do you do at say Stansted, where there are barriers to exit?

LDast

robatwork said:

LDast said:

Why are you even bothering to try and pay it when the above provided appeal gets it cancelled every time!

Are you speaking from personal experience? 

If so, what do you do at say Stansted, where there are barriers to exit?

1. Yes.  I have personal experience of successfully doing this at Heathrow (APCOA) and Gatwick (NCP) on more than one occasion at each.

2. No idea what you do at Stansted or any airport with barrier control. However, I have been advising with 100% success with this appeal at any airport that does not have barrier control, as long as the drivers identity is not blabbed.

robatwork

LDast said:

robatwork said:

LDast said:

Why are you even bothering to try and pay it when the above provided appeal gets it cancelled every time!

Are you speaking from personal experience? 

If so, what do you do at say Stansted, where there are barriers to exit?

1. Yes.  I have personal experience of successfully doing this at Heathrow (APCOA) and Gatwick (NCP) on more than one occasion at each.

2. No idea what you do at Stansted or any airport with barrier control. However, I have been advising with 100% success with this appeal at any airport that does not have barrier control, as long as the drivers identity is not blabbed.

OK I appreciate your reply.

As a matter of interest do you do similar on the Dartford crossing where there is a similar "pay after use" system in place, or is that more officially legislated "relevant land"?