Supply only windows wrong

grolin16

Hi all, long time lurker here. I did have an account many years ago but that email account is long gone and I don't know the password.

I'm just wondering if I have a leg to stand on here...

I ordered some windows from a supply only online firm last year and have now come to find the glass isn't what I ordered. I am wanting to get them checked and signed off but have now realised that they are standard glass instead of the upgraded laminated glass I required.

In my original order I checked the laminated option and paid several hundred extra for the 3 windows. I had a confirmation email which showed this upgrade no problem.
Now, the company will then ring up to confirm the order before processing another order sheet which you are then required to check and agree to, which states you are responsible for any inaccuracies or omissions.
Under the glass section it didn't mention the laminated upgrade and I never noticed this.

My main gripe is that this order form is a different format and instead of having a format which says 'laminated - no' or something along those lines, it simply says nothing. Meaning you really need to look for it along with the many, many other things you're checking are correct.

Do I have grounds to have a whinge here or is this an expensive lesson?

Many thanks

p00hsticks

What did they end up invoicing you for ?
If you paid for laminated but only got ordinary then I think you'd at least be due a refund of the difference in price, although the delay in you realising may make things more complicated...  

Okell

Under s11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 the goods must be as described - ie as ordered by you and as per their confirmation email.

The fact the goods were delivered over ten months ago doesn't change that.

Under s31 of the same Act any provision in a contract that seeks to exclude or limit the seller's liability to you in respect of s11 (amongst other sections) is not binding on you.

I would argue that to the extent that their "requirement" for you to check that they have delivered the right goods is an attempt to exclude or limit their liability under s11, then you are not bound by that requirement.  So they still owe you the correct glass.

If I were you I'd go back to them and explain that they are in breach of contract under s11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 by supplying the wrong glass and that you want it replaced - or whatever remedy it is that you do want.  If they say that you didn't notify them of the problem quickly enough according to their T&Cs, point out to them that s31 of the Consumer Rights Act does not permit them to hide behind terms that attempt to limit or exclude their legal duty to goods as described.

You are likely to have two difficulties.

First, if they are more accustomed to dealing with trade customers rather than consumers, they may not be aware of their responsibilities to consumers under the law and you may need to "educate" them.

Second, although the passage of time hasn't erased their legal duty to supply goods "as described", it might make it more difficult for you to make your case from a practical point of view.

If you can't reach a satisfactory resolution with them, your options would be to try a s75 claim if you paid by credit card or finance, or a chargeback if paid by debit card.

Failing that you'd have to consider suing them.  Which may or may not be worth it depending how much money you are talking about.  Also remember that once you get to court, there is never any guarantee that you will win.  The above is my opinion what the law is, but a judge might think I'm completely wrong.

Alderbank

Okell said:

Second, although the passage of time hasn't erased their legal duty to supply goods "as described", it might make it more difficult for you to make your case from a practical point of view.

If you can't reach a satisfactory resolution with them, your options would be to try a s75 claim if you paid by credit card or finance, or a chargeback if paid by debit card.

The passage of time doesn't erase your rights under the Consumer Rights Act but it does erase your option of a chargeback.

For most purchases of goods, chargeback must be claimed within 120 days of purchase. Unfortunately the OP is now well past that.

Ergates

p00hsticks said:

What did they end up invoicing you for ?
If you paid for laminated but only got ordinary then I think you'd at least be due a refund of the difference in price, although the delay in you realising may make things more complicated...  

I think this is key here.   If the final invoice was for normal glass, and the price you paid is for normal glass, then it will become a lot more complicated to resolve as you have, essentially, been given when you paid for.

If the final invoice and/or price paid is for laminated glass, then it's pretty cut and dried.

p00hsticks

Okell said:

You are likely to have two difficulties.

First, if they are more accustomed to dealing with trade customers rather than consumers, they may not be aware of their responsibilities to consumers under the law and you may need to "educate" them.

Second, although the passage of time hasn't erased their legal duty to supply goods "as described", it might make it more difficult for you to make your case from a practical point of view.

And possibly

Third (although the OP isn;t explicit) it sounds as if the incorrect windows may now have been installed and therefore not straightforward to return ....

eskbanker

Okell said:

Under s11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 the goods must be as described - ie as ordered by you and as per their confirmation email.

The fact the goods were delivered over ten months ago doesn't change that.

Under s31 of the same Act any provision in a contract that seeks to exclude or limit the seller's liability to you in respect of s11 (amongst other sections) is not binding on you.

I would argue that to the extent that their "requirement" for you to check that they have delivered the right goods is an attempt to exclude or limit their liability under s11, then you are not bound by that requirement.  So they still owe you the correct glass.

Isn't this is another of those situations where the point of formation of a contract becomes critical, i.e. there's presumably an argument that it's the countersigned order sheet that scopes out what's to be delivered under the contract, rather than the prior exchanges of emails, etc?  In other words, the trader could argue that the checks they expect the customer to make are to agree the scope of (future) deliverables, i.e. they're not relying on the customer checking a delivery note here, but fundamentally agreeing the scope of the contract up front:

grolin16 said:

In my original order I checked the laminated option and paid several hundred extra for the 3 windows. I had a confirmation email which showed this upgrade no problem.
Now, the company will then ring up to confirm the order before processing another order sheet which you are then required to check and agree to, which states you are responsible for any inaccuracies or omissions.
Under the glass section it didn't mention the laminated upgrade and I never noticed this.

born_again

Alderbank said:

Okell said:

Second, although the passage of time hasn't erased their legal duty to supply goods "as described", it might make it more difficult for you to make your case from a practical point of view.

If you can't reach a satisfactory resolution with them, your options would be to try a s75 claim if you paid by credit card or finance, or a chargeback if paid by debit card.

The passage of time doesn't erase your rights under the Consumer Rights Act but it does erase your option of a chargeback.

For most purchases of goods, chargeback must be claimed within 120 days of purchase. Unfortunately the OP is now well past that.

Issue here is OP said
ordered some windows from a supply only online firm last year and have now come to find the glass isn't what I ordered

There are no dates on when received. If it was last year then yes, correct. 
But given they have only just noticed, unless they were previously delivered & only now being fitted?

So perhaps @grolin16 would like to confirm.

grolin16

Thank you all for your replies and impressive knowledge.

I'm afraid we both messed up here. Having checked the original email order, I was to be charged ~£7900 for the windows and doors.
They then rang to confirm and to go through the order where they told me I had to amend one of the doors as there was a problem with the size and there were limitations on what I wanted. They sent through the final order which came to £7566, with the amended door and also without my noticing, the standard glass!
So due to my not taking much notice of the disparity in the price, as I assumed it was down to the change in the door, I ended up not actually paying for the glass! Which was actually their mistake.

What an absolute pain! There's that, and then there's the delivery of the windows where their driver hit my wall and denied it, so I had to send video footage of the incident, so that took a lot of my attention. That and obviously the stress of the install works going on and becoming a dad the month before! 

This has turned into an expensive mistake!