Advice Please

LJT12345

Hiya, just wanting some advice on a parking charge I received recently.

I've drafted something vague using the suggestions in this forum, but didnt know whether to mention signage in the initial appeal, and Im also really struggling to see if there is anything dodgy on the actual letter that I can mention.

Short story, there is 2.5 hours free parking and up to 4.5 hours if you pay (I did not know these timings). I was there 2 hours 47 minutes. So really, only just over what I assume is the free parking time and the grace period. But obviously they have purposely not made it clear in their letter. 

This is the letter (issued on 24th Oct but I didnt receive until 28th:


I've got the below drafted so far:

While I apologise for any potential misunderstanding of the terms of parking supposedly noted at the stated location, I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle and deny any liability or contractual agreement. I will also not be identifying the driver of the car.

As the keeper of the vehicle, I am happy to pay to the landowner whatever charge should have been paid on the day the vehicle was in the car park, once it has been made clear to me what the supposed infringement was, as you have chosen not to include any of these details in your letter:

• Since your PCN is a vague template not stating the actual reasons for invoicing, I require an explanation of the allegation/supposed infringement, and an image of the signage you state was at the location on the date stated in your letter. 

• If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, please include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. 

• The reason I ask for the above, is when I am driving this vehicle, I do visit this location from time to time, and not once have I seen obvious signage when entering the car park confirming the rules and regulations for parking, nor have I received a fine before. If there isnt clear signage on entry to the site, you cannot expect a driver or keeper to enter into a contract with yourselves. There are also no pay machines to indicate needing to pay for parking. 

• By not including the full details on your letter, you are expecting either the driver at the time or the keeper, to be able to remember verbatim what was written on car park signage two weeks prior to finally receiving this notice, if they have seen the signage at all. This is a purposefully misleading scare tactic.

But I visited the site again today to look at signage (I live nearby and have never noticed the parking signage to be fair). On entry there is a sign, but if you are turning right into the car park, I would not see that, due to looking left out of my car for oncoming traffic before turning. This seems unclear to me, as it would only be obvious when turning left into the car park.

When in the car park, there are a fair few signs dotted round to be fair, but they're mixed in with a lot of other CCTV signs, I had a read and took a picture, and while I didnt look at every single sign in the car park, it states "see taffic boards" and I didnt see any of those, as it hasnt actually stated where to find them. There are no pay stations, and without seeing the tarrif board I guess full details on how to pay also arent obvious.


I dont know if I should mention anything about the signage at this stage - I am also more than happy to pay what "should have been paid at the time" if applicable but also dont know if thats even worth mentioning, but it would cover the landowners losses?
This also seems an excessive charge for what I assume they are charging me for (an overstay) - is this worth mentioning, or would this only be worth it at POPLA stage?

Also, just a rant, I find it frustrating that they seemingly make you use only their app to pay, and that their is an "admin fee" if you pay the parking charge using the online method rather than over the phone (who wants to pay over the phone - that's really insecure).

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

MajorDanby

Wait for the regulars to confirm, but I believe the answer will be to use the appeals template and ensure you do not name the driver. From what I can see the NTK is not POFA complaint.

Also, Plan A is always to complain to the landowner

LJT12345

Thank you for your comment!
I know, but Im struggling to find the landowner. It's a retail park and I've been googling for a while without being able to find an email. There is a phone number on their facebook page, but I doubt that gets through to anyone that can help...

KeithP

LJT12345 said:

I know, but Im struggling to find the landowner.

As you have deliberately hidden the location, it's difficult for anyone to help with that.
Where exactly did this parking event take place?

LDast

What is this?... "As the keeper of the vehicle, I am happy to pay to the landowner whatever charge should have been paid on the day the vehicle was in the car park, once it has been made clear to me what the supposed infringement was, as you have chosen not to include any of these details in your letter:"

So, you admit liability because you are happy to pay the landowner and then you erroneously state that the infringement isn't stated. Try reading the third paragraph of the NtK and tell us if you still can't see it.
The NtK is not PoFA compliant so there is no Keeper liability yet you blab that you were the driver. FUBAR.

LJT12345

It was at Kirkstall Bridge Retail Park in Leeds.

KeithP said:

LJT12345 said:

I know, but Im struggling to find the landowner.

As you have deliberately hidden the location, it's difficult for anyone to help with that.
Where exactly did this parking event take place?

LJT12345

LDast said:

What is this?... "As the keeper of the vehicle, I am happy to pay to the landowner whatever charge should have been paid on the day the vehicle was in the car park, once it has been made clear to me what the supposed infringement was, as you have chosen not to include any of these details in your letter:"

So, you admit liability because you are happy to pay the landowner and then you erroneously state that the infringement isn't stated. Try reading the third paragraph of the NtK and tell us if you still can't see it.
The NtK is not PoFA compliant so there is no Keeper liability yet you blab that you were the driver. FUBAR.

I didnt "blab that I was the driver". Im a decent person and happy to pay for parking. I did mention that I wasnt sure to include this or not, and their notice does not state the infridgement, it's expecting someone that hasnt seen a parking sign to miraculously know what the parking rules were - your response seems like an overreaction.

Gr1pr

This is about choosing words and about what you share, standard details, as in , less is more 

Its a game and you have been picked to play the game, so not an over reaction 

Your definitely dont want to tell GN who was driving or admit any liability, less is more, you need a no comment reaction, not the response you wrote 

Play the game 

Coupon-mad

Just send the usual 'non-POFA so get lost' appeal found when you search the forum for:

Keeper POFA Group Nexus trick

fisherjim

"As the keeper of the vehicle, I am happy to pay to the landowner whatever charge should have been paid on the day"

How on earth do you think that will work?

The landowner gets the fees from parking and that's it.

The parking operator do not get any of that they only get money out of people breaking their rules, so in effect they want you to fall foul of there terms and conditions that's why there are so many traps to fall in to, and some even pay the landowner to skim the car park for as many rule breaks as possible!

As already suggested the NTK isn't PoFA compliant so as long as you don't let on who the driver is they are stuffed.

LJT12345

Coupon-mad said:

Just send the usual 'non-POFA so get lost' appeal found when you search the forum for:

Keeper POFA Group Nexus trick

Ok, so just go non POFA and dont mention anything else at all?

Noted, will redo the draft and send that! Am also still trying to figure out the landowner to try that route.

Im curious though, other than that, do I even have anything thats worth contesting with POPLA if they reject the appeal? I realise they probably wont bother going to court etc but I'm concerned in this instance about potentially feeling stuck and needing to pay the £100. 
On a side note, I dont really understand why they are allowed to up the charge again if you appeal to an "independent body". Thats always baffled me.