CCJ - salary overpayment - advice to set-aside

CrispyMcNuggets

I just did a credit check to plan for mortgages and discovered I have a CCJ against me issued in July 2024 for £7048!

I've read the newbies guide and gone through many posts regarding CCJ set asides. I didn't find a lot of cases similar to mine and was just hoping for some confirmation and advice.

Background
Did a bit of digging with the court and found out my CCJ was from a salary overpayment from my old employer that happened in August and September 2022 to the tune of £5800 which was paid to me in 2 chunks (£3k and £2k). The claimant (my old employer) is asking for court fees and interest on top of this.

The overpayment occurred at a time when I was leaving that employer to change jobs and, as a result, had a change in my tax codes as well.

Key points are:
1) They had revoked access to my online employee payslip as of my end of employment before I was overpaid. I had no way of cross-referencing this.
2) Given the change in jobs, I was receiving salary from 2 different employers (which is not unheard of) and given the change in my tax codes and the not unreasonable amount, I did not query it at the time

Wrong address
Furthermore, I informed the payroll department immediately after I left of my moving house and gave them details of my new address (I also no longer live there either), however they have sent the CCJ to my old address despite me updating them.

I believe I have a reasonable grounds to request for a set-aside of this CCJ as:
- They sent it to the wrong address which did not give me a chance to defend myself (and I have documentation to prove they had a newer address which they could have reasonably sent it to)
- Given the relatively small amount (i.e. not on the order of £10k+), I believe it was reasonable for me to not query the overpayment at the time (see above)
- I am disputing paying for court fees and interest as, again, had I been informed of this, I would have paid that debt off without it escalating to this amount

My plan is:
1. Contact the claimant or the claimant's legal representative to request for a consent for a set-aside - if they agree, then I'll agree to pay ONLY the salary I owe but not the court fees or interest
2. Failing that submit an N244 on the grounds of the above

Questions
1. Should I try contacting my old employer first to see if they are happy to resolve this?
2. I am not disputing the salary overpayment and so am happy to pay that off. Should I pay that now?
3. When I'm submitting the request for consent order from the claimant's legal representative, how should I word it such that I agree to only the overpayment amount but not the court fees and interest?
4. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Finances are currently tight and so I'm trying to sort this out myself if possible without a solicitor...

Would really appreciate your advice as I'm losing hair and sleep over worrying about my financial future!

Brie

I would suggest contacting the employer though I wouldn't be surprised if they just say no.

There's info about set asides on the parking forum as some people who get PCNs only discover them when they spot a CCJ so you might check over there on hints on how to proceed.

Grumpy_chap

The OP received a little short of £6k over two months from the previous employer after leaving that employment.

The OP then goes on to suggest the amount is "relatively small" as it is less than £10k so why they didn't notice the payments (along with unable to check the amounts because of tax code changes).

Most people would notice £6k. Perhaps the OP is a very high earner so £6k is "loose change".  
Most people would definitely notice payments from past employers two months after leaving.

How credible is the 'did not notice' claim, really?

CrispyMcNuggets said:

I just did a credit check to plan for mortgages and discovered I have a CCJ against me issued in July 2024 for £7048!

I've read the newbies guide and gone through many posts regarding CCJ set asides. I didn't find a lot of cases similar to mine and was just hoping for some confirmation and advice.

Background
Did a bit of digging with the court and found out my CCJ was from a salary overpayment from my old employer that happened in August and September 2022 to the tune of £5800 which was paid to me in 2 chunks (£3k and £2k). The claimant (my old employer) is asking for court fees and interest on top of this.

The overpayment occurred at a time when I was leaving that employer to change jobs and, as a result, had a change in my tax codes as well.

Key points are:
1) They had revoked access to my online employee payslip as of my end of employment before I was overpaid. I had no way of cross-referencing this.
2) Given the change in jobs, I was receiving salary from 2 different employers (which is not unheard of) and given the change in my tax codes and the not unreasonable amount, I did not query it at the time

Wrong address
Furthermore, I informed the payroll department immediately after I left of my moving house and gave them details of my new address (I also no longer live there either), however they have sent the CCJ to my old address despite me updating them.

I believe I have a reasonable grounds to request for a set-aside of this CCJ as:
- They sent it to the wrong address which did not give me a chance to defend myself (and I have documentation to prove they had a newer address which they could have reasonably sent it to)
- Given the relatively small amount (i.e. not on the order of £10k+), I believe it was reasonable for me to not query the overpayment at the time (see above)
- I am disputing paying for court fees and interest as, again, had I been informed of this, I would have paid that debt off without it escalating to this amount

My plan is:
1. Contact the claimant or the claimant's legal representative to request for a consent for a set-aside - if they agree, then I'll agree to pay ONLY the salary I owe but not the court fees or interest
2. Failing that submit an N244 on the grounds of the above

Questions
1. Should I try contacting my old employer first to see if they are happy to resolve this?
2. I am not disputing the salary overpayment and so am happy to pay that off. Should I pay that now?
3. When I'm submitting the request for consent order from the claimant's legal representative, how should I word it such that I agree to only the overpayment amount but not the court fees and interest?
4. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Finances are currently tight and so I'm trying to sort this out myself if possible without a solicitor...

Would really appreciate your advice as I'm losing hair and sleep over worrying about my financial future!

CrispyMcNuggets

Grumpy_chap said:

Most people would notice £6k. Perhaps the OP is a very high earner so £6k is "loose change".  
Most people would definitely notice payments from past employers two months after leaving.

How credible is the 'did not notice' claim, really?

It's not uncommon whenever I change employers (happens yearly-biyearly as part of my job) to be paid half and half in the transition phase (i.e. around the time that this happened). Furthermore, because of changes in my hours or contract, there's no fixed nominal amount that's easy to compare to if I want to dispute my pay without having to manually calculate my hours.

As above, because my access to my payslip was revoked, I couldn't even check this.

Not a massively high earner and didn't mean to give the impression that it wasn't a substantial amount.
Also not trying to bank my entire argument on 'I didn't notice', but hope it provides some clarity!

Exodi

CrispyMcNuggets said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Most people would notice £6k. Perhaps the OP is a very high earner so £6k is "loose change".  
Most people would definitely notice payments from past employers two months after leaving.

How credible is the 'did not notice' claim, really?

It's not uncommon whenever I change employers (happens yearly-biyearly as part of my job) to be paid half and half in the transition phase (i.e. around the time that this happened). Furthermore, because of changes in my hours or contract, there's no fixed nominal amount that's easy to compare to if I want to dispute my pay without having to manually calculate my hours.

As above, because my access to my payslip was revoked, I couldn't even check this.

Not a massively high earner and didn't mean to give the impression that it wasn't a substantial amount.
Also not trying to bank my entire argument on 'I didn't notice', but hope it provides some clarity!

Sorry, like Grumpy_chap, I find this incredibly hard to believe.

I work a lot with payroll departments, and you would not believe the incredible coincidence that people can be overpaid several thousands pounds and seemingly not notice, yet also turn up the next day, payslip in hand, if they're underpaid a pound.

None of your 'reasons' really make sense to me. It seems pretty obvious if access to the online system was revoked to ask the employer about it or ask for a copy of a payslip. Likewise it would have been clear from your bank statement the payments made from different companies, unless you also haven't checked your statement since 2022.

It's a significant amount of money, 2-3 months of median take home pay. Most people would notice, it beggars belief to suggest you didn't, especially as you say you are 'not a massively high earner'.

In genuine cases of overpaid wages we see, usually the first instinct is to challenge the validity of the overpayment, yet you already seem to be clear that you were overpaid and would be happy to pay it back, which seems inconsistent as you have taken issue with not having seen a payslip? Was it obvious you were overpaid or not?

In any case, if you were to pursue a set aside, I would personally do it solely on the grounds of the wrong address. I think most, like myself, would find it very hard (impossible) to believe you genuinely didn't notice. And if you really didn't, incredibly negligent.

Unless you're earning 5 figures every month, I also don't really understand the defence that you've just responded with, but nonetheless you're not obliged to convince us, so to help with your questions:

CrispyMcNuggets said:

Questions
1. Should I try contacting my old employer first to see if they are happy to resolve this?
2. I am not disputing the salary overpayment and so am happy to pay that off. Should I pay that now?
3. When I'm submitting the request for consent order from the claimant's legal representative, how should I word it such that I agree to only the overpayment amount but not the court fees and interest?
4. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Finances are currently tight and so I'm trying to sort this out myself if possible without a solicitor...

Would really appreciate your advice as I'm losing hair and sleep over worrying about my financial future!

1. You should, but not for the outcome you are hoping for. They will request payment, to which you'll invariably suggest that you'll only pay it if they swallow the court costs and agree to help you set the CCJ aside. Simultaneously they would view that doing this removes any influence they have to enforce the debt.

2. Deliberately paying less than the CCJ amount without any agreement seems pointless and would not be sufficient when evidenced to the court to get the CCJ flagged as satisfied.

3. I don't think I'd even mention it, your position would be that you want to set aside the judgement on the grounds you did not have an opportunity to respond on the matter. Inevitably in the future you will be able to make arguments against the accrual of interest or court costs.

4. Personally I'd avoid the 'did not notice' claim, and likewise be open-minded on the costs as I'd suggest there was just as much responsibility on you to contact your employer after your payday bonanzas.

I think courts in general are very fatigued from hearing incredulous tales of circumstance from every debtor about how many specific factors caused them to unfortunately not notice a giant overpayment and subsequently how they accidentally spent the money. I guess it's somewhat fortunate you're at least able to pay it back.

saajan_12

How much actually are the court fees & interest? 
Arguably some interest is due anyway, as you had the money in your account and could have earned 3-5% for most of that time, higher if you invested the money. Equally the employer lost that return on the money over 2 years. Thoug the court rates may be higher than what's accessible to you. 

Exodi

saajan_12 said:

How much actually are the court fees & interest? 
Arguably some interest is due anyway, as you had the money in your account and could have earned 3-5% for most of that time, higher if you invested the money. Equally the employer lost that return on the money over 2 years. Thoug the court rates may be higher than what's accessible to you. 

Original debt was £5800 and CCJ was issued for £7048, so £1248 in court fees and interest.

The debt occurred for pay periods Aug-Sep 2022 and CCJ was awarded July 2024, so nearly 2 years worth of interest.

Interest rate typically used for judgement debts is 8% simple interest per year, unless the court rules otherwise (which is unlikely given the OP did not defend the action and interest rates have been at historic highs).

8% of £5800 for 23 months is £889.33, meaning court costs could have been around £358.67, though I think it's more likely to be £945 in interest (just over two years of interest) and £303 in court costs (in line with the cost to set aside a CCJ).

I'm not sure what the defense might look like; I guess arguing that if the company had contacted the OP on the details they provided, then court costs and interest would not have been incurred - but the OP would inevitably face difficult questions about why they didn't contact the employer when they noticed the error (unless, as mentioned before, they intend to claim they didn't notice, in which case respond to deeply cynical questions of how they possibly didn't notice).

I'm also not sure if the employer had the OP's phone number or email address, but I'd also be clear on whether the employer contacted the OP before they issued proceedings, because it'll be even more embarrassing to couple the 'did not notice' defense with suggestions that they must have missed other forms of communication. On the flipside, it would be useful if the employer did not make efforts to resolve via other communication channels in the OP's defense.

Personally, I'd just pay it if I had the money, and not just because I'm cynical on the OP noticing, but because if the £5800 windfall was put in a sensible savings account for the past 2 years paying 5%, they would have made about £600 in interest (so the actual cost is ~£650). I'm suprised the employer hasn't employed a tracing agency and made any formal enforcement action.

Grumpy_chap

CrispyMcNuggets said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Most people would notice £6k. Perhaps the OP is a very high earner so £6k is "loose change".  
Most people would definitely notice payments from past employers two months after leaving.

How credible is the 'did not notice' claim, really?

It's not uncommon whenever I change employers (happens yearly-biyearly as part of my job) to be paid half and half in the transition phase (i.e. around the time that this happened). Furthermore, because of changes in my hours or contract, there's no fixed nominal amount that's easy to compare to if I want to dispute my pay without having to manually calculate my hours.

As above, because my access to my payslip was revoked, I couldn't even check this.

Not a massively high earner and didn't mean to give the impression that it wasn't a substantial amount.
Also not trying to bank my entire argument on 'I didn't notice', but hope it provides some clarity!

If you are experienced at moving jobs every couple of years that, in my opinion, makes the "did not notice" less credible and not more credible as you have the experience to know what sort of final payments are expected after end of employment.