Parking ticket from UKCPM when Gatwick parking company had my car

Alepko

Hi, looking for advice please. I have read the newbies thread but I can’t see anything that relates to transfer of liability.

I went on holiday 20th-30th September and in that time I paid for Gatwick Airport Parking Spaces ltd to park my car for me. They met me in car park X, drove it somewhere for the 10 days and dropped it back to me.

I have now received in the post, a PCN from UK Car Park Management, complete with pictures.

The reason given is ‘No Parking On Access Roads / Roadways’ and it is clearly shown to be in a line of other cars. The company obviously uses this car park for its clients so I imagine they should have an agreement to park there. This is dated the 29th September so obviously I was not back.

As I was not the driver, I filled out the transfer of liability form on the 16th October with a screenshot of the email that stated my booking was until the 30th September. Unfortunately I had to identify 1. The driver and 2. The address of the driver, which technically, I do not know. So I just put the company name and address from Companies House in this form. 

I also had to pick from four options, where I chose ‘I was the keeper of the vehicle stated, but the vehicle was in the possession of the person named below’.

I have since received another notice in the post, dated the 18th October, as a ‘final warning’ of the original ticket. I have evidence that the liability form was submitted on the 16th.

In hindsight, I should have not identified that I was the keeper. There is no definition of ‘keeper’ but I assumed it meant ‘Registered Keeper’ whereas the POFA 2012 defines it as “keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper”

I guess I now have to prove I was not the keeper at the time the vehicle was parked. 

Do I wait for a rejection notice for my transfer of liability application? Appeal the second notice? Ignore completely?

Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

LDast

Keeper or Registered Keeper makes no difference in this situation. There is nothing for you to "prove". All "proof" of anything is the burden of UKCPM.

If the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully compliant with PoFA, then liability for the charge can be transferred to you the Keeper. We have not seen the NtK and so do not know whether it is fully PoFA compliant.

What have the parking company you used have to say about this? What is the location of the alleged breach of contract?

Alepko

LDast said:

Keeper or Registered Keeper makes no difference in this situation. There is nothing for you to "prove". All "proof" of anything is the burden of UKCPM.

If the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully compliant with PoFA, then liability for the charge can be transferred to you the Keeper. We have not seen the NtK and so do not know whether it is fully PoFA compliant.

What have the parking company you used have to say about this? What is the location of the alleged breach of contract?

I understand the liability can be passed to me, but if I was not driving or in possession of the car at the time, and I’ve paid someone to hold my car for a period of time, would I not want to ‘prove’ that? Why would it be in UKCPM’s interest to prove anything if they can just default to chasing the keeper? Genuinely asking.

I will have to update when I have the letter to hand. I used a third party ‘Compare Parking Deals’ but I suppose Gatwick Airport Parking Spaces should be liable. I will call and see what they have to say.

LDast

Alepko said:

LDast said:

Keeper or Registered Keeper makes no difference in this situation. There is nothing for you to "prove". All "proof" of anything is the burden of UKCPM.

If the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully compliant with PoFA, then liability for the charge can be transferred to you the Keeper. We have not seen the NtK and so do not know whether it is fully PoFA compliant.

What have the parking company you used have to say about this? What is the location of the alleged breach of contract?

I understand the liability can be passed to me, but if I was not driving or in possession of the car at the time, and I’ve paid someone to hold my car for a period of time, would I not want to ‘prove’ that? Why would it be in UKCPM’s interest to prove anything if they can just default to chasing the keeper? Genuinely asking.

I will have to update when I have the letter to hand. I used a third party ‘Compare Parking Deals’ but I suppose Gatwick Airport Parking Spaces should be liable. I will call and see what they have to say.

UKCPM won't care if you have evidence that the vehicle was not in your possession at the time. If their NtK is PoFA compliant and they don't know the identity and a service address for the driver at the time, they can still transfer liability for the charge to you, the RK.

This will not be resolved in any appeals process. You are not dealing with organisations with any customer service ethos. They are mostly bottom-dwelling ex-clampers and their sole aim is to scam you for as much as they can.

The only way your "evidence" will come into its own is when this is escalated to the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court.

Alepko

LDast said:

Alepko said:

LDast said:

Keeper or Registered Keeper makes no difference in this situation. There is nothing for you to "prove". All "proof" of anything is the burden of UKCPM.

If the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is fully compliant with PoFA, then liability for the charge can be transferred to you the Keeper. We have not seen the NtK and so do not know whether it is fully PoFA compliant.

What have the parking company you used have to say about this? What is the location of the alleged breach of contract?

I understand the liability can be passed to me, but if I was not driving or in possession of the car at the time, and I’ve paid someone to hold my car for a period of time, would I not want to ‘prove’ that? Why would it be in UKCPM’s interest to prove anything if they can just default to chasing the keeper? Genuinely asking.

I will have to update when I have the letter to hand. I used a third party ‘Compare Parking Deals’ but I suppose Gatwick Airport Parking Spaces should be liable. I will call and see what they have to say.

UKCPM won't care if you have evidence that the vehicle was not in your possession at the time. If their NtK is PoFA compliant and they don't know the identity and a service address for the driver at the time, they can still transfer liability for the charge to you, the RK.

This will not be resolved in any appeals process. You are not dealing with organisations with any customer service ethos. They are mostly bottom-dwelling ex-clampers and their sole aim is to scam you for as much as they can.

The only way your "evidence" will come into its own is when this is escalated to the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court.

I see, understood. So in terms of next steps, if the NtK is compliant, (will update later on) is my best bet to ignore it until they try to take me to court?

I have opened an enquiry with the parking space company in accordance with their terms and conditions, so this could support.

Castle

OP
Did you pay the parking space company with a Credit/Debit card?

Alepko

Castle said:

OP
Did you pay the parking space company with a Credit/Debit card?

Hiya, I paid by PayPal which is linked to my Debit card

fisherjim

Seems like you have been had by a dodgy parking company that abuse peoples cars and park them in any old place they can find, their T&C's even state that their car parks "don't have planning permission for car parking".

If you read their Trust Pilot reviews they are all from 2024 so not long standing and their good reviews are from reviewers with low or one review counts.

The others state the more obvious clues as to their real operation, your statement "I imagine they should have an agreement to park there". Is a bit naive.

I would never use anything other than official airport parking here personally, you are now in the long haul of PPC land!

Bazarius

It appears to me that the Keeper must discharge liability for the PCN NOW by filling in the transfer of liability naming the firm and provide their address . 

Irrespective of whether it was somebody else driving - the keeper will still be liable if the action above isn’t taken. (If the PCN is Pofa compliant) 

If the airport parking company denies liability and it passes back onto you then you can defend it in court properly and you  will win . 

Coupon-mad

Aa well as complaining to Gatwick Airport Parking Spaces Ltd, ask them if they belong to a Trade Body with a Code of Practice, e.g.:

https://www.iapa.me.uk/conduct

Then complain to Gatwick Airport itself because they won't want rogue airport parking/meet & greet in the news again and should lean on the company.

Alepko

fisherjim said:

Seems like you have been had by a dodgy parking company that abuse peoples cars and park them in any old place they can find, their T&C's even state that their car parks "don't have planning permission for car parking".

If you read their Trust Pilot reviews they are all from 2024 so not long standing and their good reviews are from reviewers with low or one review counts.

The others state the more obvious clues as to their real operation, your statement "I imagine they should have an agreement to park there". Is a bit naive.

I would never use anything other than official airport parking here personally, you are now in the long haul of PPC land!

Yep! In all honesty it was a last minute flight/car park booking and I just needed to get something sorted. This was recommended by a friend who had used them before so it seems there’s a bit of a mixed bag. 

Yep, it was a bit naive. Luckily I’m someone who would rather be in it for the long haul, than pay and let them get away with it. 

It is obviously a scam, that much is clear now. In the ‘photographic evidence’ section of my appeal they’ve taken a picture of the signage which was so hastily taken, that 50% of the text is blurred and illegible. You can however see the ‘No parking on roadway’. Yet in the background you can see clusters of cars behind the fence, and lines of cars in front of the fence (where mine was). I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some sort of deliberate exploitation in place.

They can pry £60/£100/£170 from my cold dead hands