Euro Car Parks New Sunday Parking Rules but no Signage on entry from Road

sammitibbs

Firstly, I apologise if my ask confuses people - I am not good at writing but I need help so I have pushed myself to try to explain as best I can. 
Can anyone advise me on what I can do once I receive my answer from ECP about my appeal please? I ask because on reading things on the internet about ECP I doubt they will uphold my appeal and cancel the PCN!
The vehicle entered the car park from the main road - it is a winding road and once you enter the , you can not get out without entering the car park and going out the other side The entrance winding road is off the main road (you would not go up this road unless you were parking in car park - It is the entrance to the car park to the 'barriers' of the car park. There is no signage here to state there is a change in Sunday parking rules. 
Previously to the change the Sunday parking was free. The barriers would be lifted up before trading began on both the Entrance and Exit that leads to the winding road. This was the case when the vehicle entered the car park on 13/10/2024 @ 13.59 and left the car park on 13/10/2024@14.47. Had the signage been at the entrance from the road, we would have continued driving, less than 2 minutes to the next car park that is free everyday for 3 hours. 
I must state that I was not the driver of the vehicle but I am the registered keeper. I have not provided ECP with the driver details - I am saying this because I have only just read the back of the letter which states ' if you were not the driver at the time of the PCN was issued, please provide full name and address of the driver in writing' I assumed as I am the registered keeper, it is my responsibility of the PCN. 
I was shocked that I had received this for using the car park on a Sunday and therefore I contacted the shopping mall (Eastgate Centre) office to query this. The lady I spoke to could not be more apologetic, she said lots of customers are receiving these because the signage is not much different to the signage for Monday to Saturday parking that was provided previously to the change in Sunday charges and the barriers look the same as they do when the old rules applied, so people entering and exiting for the first time since the change just assume nothing has changed and do not realise until they receive a PCN.
I ask if there is anyone that could advise me on what I would say to POPLA and does anyone have a draft of a letter I could use, so that POPLA has a better understanding of what I am trying to say. I would really appreciate any help Thank you 
I have attached a photo of the entrance and the PCN The barriers are at the top of the winding road  (Image removed by Forum Team) any help in this matter. 

LDast

It matters not one iota what you appeal to ECP so don't bother putting any effort into that as it will be rejected. I doubt POPLA will be much use in this case either but it is up to you if you want to have a go.

If the material change of terms has happened within the last 4 months you can use the following in the POPLA appeal:

The relevant section of the SCoP (October 2024) states:

"3.4. Material changes – notices
Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

NOTE: Examples of material changes can include introduction of parking enforcement where none has previously applied, introduction of time-limited free parking, or reductions in the time limit within which free parking is available. Given the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances the test is whether the fact that a change has been made is clearly signalled to drivers on entering the land and the nature of the change is clearly displayed thereafter – it may also be necessary to install repeater notices depending on the scale of the premises."

In reality, this will lead to a claim issued by DCB Legal and if you follow the advice in the Newbies/FAQ thread when the claim arrives, it will all be over early next year when they discontinue.

Nellymoser

You're vehicle reg number is showing in your pcn post. You can't edit your posts yet. Hit the red Report ask admin to delete picture.

sammitibbs

LDast said:

It matters not one iota what you appeal to ECP so don't bother putting any effort into that as it will be rejected. I doubt POPLA will be much use in this case either but it is up to you if you want to have a go.

If the material change of terms has happened within the last 4 months you can use the following in the POPLA appeal:

The relevant section of the SCoP (October 2024) states:

"3.4. Material changes – notices
Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

NOTE: Examples of material changes can include introduction of parking enforcement where none has previously applied, introduction of time-limited free parking, or reductions in the time limit within which free parking is available. Given the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances the test is whether the fact that a change has been made is clearly signalled to drivers on entering the land and the nature of the change is clearly displayed thereafter – it may also be necessary to install repeater notices depending on the scale of the premises."

In reality, this will lead to a claim issued by DCB Legal and if you follow the advice in the Newbies/FAQ thread when the claim arrives, it will all be over early next year when they discontinue.

Thank you for this advise  The change happened approx 3 months ago 

Umkomaas

sammitibbs said:

LDast said:

It matters not one iota what you appeal to ECP so don't bother putting any effort into that as it will be rejected. I doubt POPLA will be much use in this case either but it is up to you if you want to have a go.

If the material change of terms has happened within the last 4 months you can use the following in the POPLA appeal:

The relevant section of the SCoP (October 2024) states:

"3.4. Material changes – notices
Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

NOTE: Examples of material changes can include introduction of parking enforcement where none has previously applied, introduction of time-limited free parking, or reductions in the time limit within which free parking is available. Given the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances the test is whether the fact that a change has been made is clearly signalled to drivers on entering the land and the nature of the change is clearly displayed thereafter – it may also be necessary to install repeater notices depending on the scale of the premises."

In reality, this will lead to a claim issued by DCB Legal and if you follow the advice in the Newbies/FAQ thread when the claim arrives, it will all be over early next year when they discontinue.

Thank you for this advise  The change happened approx 3 months ago 

Try to find the exact date. In your eventual POPLA appeal, put ECP to strict proof that the additional signage of material change (as per the BPA Code of Practice) was in place, and a date stamped photo of it being in place provided to POPLA. 

Coupon-mad

3 months ago isn't very long and the useless farce 'joint BPA/IPC CoP' probably mirrors the MHCLG draft code, which says extra signage is needed for at least FOUR MONTHS (one of my small victories in the statutory code).