building regulations certificate vs FENSA - Window installation

Tiredusician

Hi there. 
I have tried to find a similar issue to this. But cant seem to.
Apologies if there is. With us nearing the completion date, my partner and I need assistance with a dilema we are facing.

We had an offer accepted on a house with the condition that the windows would be replaced at the vendors expence. 

The deal was (and was stated in the contract rider), that the windows would be replaced using a FENSA approved installer.
Since then, the vendor has replied saying that their contractor (im pretty sure its their mate) is not a FENSA contractor.
But has stated they will supply a building regulations certificate on completion of the windows.

My question is. Is this the same, or just as good as having a FENSA issued contractor?
From what I can see online, they are in a sense the same. 
But dont want to assume. I have read almost everywhere that the FENSA approved contractor is a requierment for windows since April of 2002. But aso that people still get windows installed without them.

So we are bit concerened and confused.
We want to ensure that we are covered for any faults in the windows if these are poorly put in place. Which was why we requested the FENSA approved contracor.

Any and all guidence is appreciated

eddddy

The situation is...

Replacement window installations need to meet building regulations (e.g. structural support and ventilation, etc)

• FENSA approved installers should be competent to 'self certify' - i.e. They sign their own work off to say it meets building regs

• Other installers have to get a building control inspector to sign off their work to say it meets building regs

But meeting building regs doesn't necessarily mean that the windows are good quality or well installed.


A 'proper' window installation company might give a 10 year warranty, which might be reassuring (although the warranties can sometimes be pretty useless).

If I were getting replacement windows, I would look at things like the reputation of the company, how long they'd been in business, maybe look at other jobs they'd done etc.


It's often considered a bit risky to ask a seller to do work on a property before you buy it. The seller might be tempted to do the cheapest possible 'botch', as they won't be bothered if it all 'falls apart' a few months later - once the property is sold.


Have you exchanged contracts for your purchase?

FreeBear

eddddy said:

The situation is...

Replacement window installations need to meet building regulations (e.g. structural support and ventilation, etc)

• FENSA approved installers should be competent to 'self certify' - i.e. They sign their own work off to say it meets building regs

• Other installers have to get a building control inspector to sign off their work to say it meets building regs

But meeting building regs doesn't necessarily mean that the windows are good quality or well installed.

The alternative to FENSA is CERTASS - Different organisation, but similar requirements for self certification. Either is acceptable in my opinion.

One issue with getting the vendor to do the work is any guarantee - Not always transferable to the new owner, so if there is a problem, you may have to pay to get it fixed.

Tiredusician

eddddy said:

Have you exchanged contracts for your purchase?

No, contracts have not been exchanged.

eddddy

Tiredusician said:

eddddy said:

Have you exchanged contracts for your purchase?

No, contracts have not been exchanged.

So you've still got the opportunity to have the new windows checked, and/or look at them yourself - and if you're not happy, decide what you want to do.

But, for example, new windows might look fine when they're first installed - because you can't see any dodgy workmanship behind the PVC trim, which might result in leaks, trim falling off etc.

Or equally, the quality and workmanship might be perfectly acceptable.

Doozergirl

Are we going to answer the question? 

FENSA and CERTASS are self-certification schemes that enable the installers to declare that the windows meet the Building Regulations. 

Building Regulations Approval is gained by a Building Inspector physically inspecting the windows.  

They are all a way of meeting the building regulations.  None is better than the other, though a building inspector is completely
impartial.  

chanz4

Tiredusician said:

Hi there. 
I have tried to find a similar issue to this. But cant seem to.
Apologies if there is. With us nearing the completion date, my partner and I need assistance with a dilema we are facing.

We had an offer accepted on a house with the condition that the windows would be replaced at the vendors expence. 

The deal was (and was stated in the contract rider), that the windows would be replaced using a FENSA approved installer.
Since then, the vendor has replied saying that their contractor (im pretty sure its their mate) is not a FENSA contractor.
But has stated they will supply a building regulations certificate on completion of the windows.

My question is. Is this the same, or just as good as having a FENSA issued contractor?
From what I can see online, they are in a sense the same. 
But dont want to assume. I have read almost everywhere that the FENSA approved contractor is a requierment for windows since April of 2002. But aso that people still get windows installed without them.

So we are bit concerened and confused.
We want to ensure that we are covered for any faults in the windows if these are poorly put in place. Which was why we requested the FENSA approved contracor.

Any and all guidence is appreciated

A lot say the warranty does not transfer

ThisIsWeird

Do all Fensa/Certass companies also have to provide a warranty as part of this certification process? If not, then I doubt there's any effective difference between these regulating bodies cert'ing, and a Build Control cert.
I presume you were expecting a warranty of some sort, Tiredusician? But if one isn't provided, and it ain't a standard part of Fensa/Certa, you will likely struggle to oblige them.
As to the essential Q as to which cert'ing process is 'best', there shouldn't be anything to choose between them, but - marginally - I'd prefer BuildCert, provided the cove had a good check of lintels and how well sealed the frames are to the brickwork.
The windows will also have to meet a min U-value, so you should be confident of this too (I presume the BCO would check this, surely?), so that just leaves the quality of actual window. 
Tbh, I think you'd struggle to find a dud make these days, but you should be able to ask the make of extrusion used, and see if it's one of the biggies (Rehau and, um, er...). And frame thickness, which will surely be no less than 75mm (what's typical these days?).
So, Build Control? That's fine. Everything else - warranty, whether insurance-backed, extrusion, thickness, what else? - ask your conveyancer to enquire.

Tiredusician

ThisIsWeird said:

I presume you were expecting a warranty of some sort, Tiredusician? 

So, Build Control? That's fine. Everything else - warranty, whether insurance-backed, extrusion, thickness, what else? - ask your conveyancer to enquire.

Essentially, yes. And the satisfaction that the windows wont be put in poorly. 

And we have enquiered with our solicitor on the matter. To which we are waiting a response

Albermarle

Tbh, I think you'd struggle to find a dud make these days, but you should be able to ask the make of extrusion used, and see if it's one of the biggies (Rehau and, um, er...)

Yes it would be unusual to have problems with the actual window itself. There are no backstreet manufacturers of window frame extruded profile, or the double glazing units and no imports from China etc They are all certified to ISO standards. Companies such as Rehau, Eurocell, Epwin, Liniar etc 

The window itself will normally be made by a local fabrication company, who weld the frame to the measurements and type of window, fit the hinges/handles/locks/beading etc  There could be issues here with a dodgy fabricator but the suppliers mentioned above keep a close eye on what these people are doing, and often supply the specialist equipment needed.

The tricky bit is normally the quality of installation.

LHW99

Albermarle said:

Tbh, I think you'd struggle to find a dud make these days, but you should be able to ask the make of extrusion used, and see if it's one of the biggies (Rehau and, um, er...)

Kömmerling, Deceuninck, Eurocell......