Remote Working and Travel Expenses?

NCC1701-A

akira181 said:

NCC1701-A said:

For the benefit of others that may find themselves in similar circumstances, what's the actual outcome? Does your contract now say Home or Office, can you claim travel & accommodation when you work at the office, is there a mutually agreed definition of occasional?

The contract is a "fill in the blanks" standard for all 100k+ of their employees. Presumably intentional for legal simplicity and to avoid being pigeonholed. My main office is still down as Blackburn as that's my HQ. It's where my reporting line and department are situated. My main work site isn't stated on the contract, technically I can go into any of their offices around the country if I just wanted an office environment to work in. 

Making an official change to a contract in a company that size is not something one person at HR or my line manager can do. It would take weeks, if not months, assuming they'd do it at all for a new start. There is no mobility clause and I have it in writing before and after signing the contract that my position is remote. It's not ideal but that will have to do.

The contract is vague on many items, such as expenses. Again presumably for legal simplicity, it's covered by policies which are easier to change. Their travel policy does seem to suggest that travel expenses should be paid if work requires me to come into the office that isn't my main work site but not if I choose to go in. The policy also seems to differentiate between main work site (where you do most of your work) and main office (where your department resides). 

Commuting time minus the first hour is also considered working time (my total commute time would be 7 hours total, 5 of which can be considered working hours). I'll discuss this with my manager face to face when I start in two weeks instead of over email via HR. Either way, I don't mind if it is indeed occasional. If it's more regular, the deal breaker would be the commute and not lack of expenses.

Occasional means when needed, not an arbitrary X times a week/month. I'm an engineer and will be working on various projects. It's impossible/meaningless to put a number on days in the office for projects that haven't even started yet. My line of work is dynamic and some flexibility is required. Some projects are more/less demanding than others.

So if there's training, my design is being manufactured, tested, installed, commissioned, started up, etc, they may ask me to go in or I may want to go in myself. I have it verbally confirmed that I won't be going in just for the sake of it (like an arbitrary X days a month) or just to attend meetings that I could otherwise call into. Only when it's required/beneficial for me to physically see or do something will I be called in.

That's all more than reasonable and will see just have to see how it plays out. Failing that, my current employer has already said they're happy to take me back anytime (possible pleasantry but also quite likely) and my previous employer is recruiting and been in touch in the last months. So I'm fortunate enough to have options if things go south.

Thanks.  

So, contract still has your office as place of work, you're hoping custom & practice discussions with your manager will allow you to claim travelling costs & time, and occasional will be decided when it happens with alternative exit strategies if you're not happy.

Good luck.  

Wicks

Late to the party but I have some thing similar.  I stated my position with my company in 2016 whilst living in Berkshire, reporting to Glasgow.  My contract stated ( and still does) I am a 'home worker' as I covered UK wide sites.  My 'home office' was in Surrey simply as that was my closest location to home  This was to cover company insurances. 

The company had a restructure and I started reporting to Surrey Office with all my sites now in the South East of England, but my T&Cs did not change.

I now live in the Midlands and still report to Surrey office by choice (had the option to report to Midlands Office), with T&Cs still as a home worker.

This is a long winded way to say, it may be to do with company policy/ HR/ Insurances etc.

akira181

NCC1701-A said:

 So, contract still has your office as place of work, you're hoping custom & practice discussions with your manager will allow you to claim travelling costs & time, and occasional will be decided when it happens with alternative exit strategies if you're not happy. 

That's just life isn't it? You talk like adults and come to an arrangement. If it doesn't work, you go your separate ways. Any new job has an element of unknown.

It's up to me to demonstrate I can handle my responsibilities remotely and negotiate whether my presence is needed if they ask me to come in. Their travel policy dictates the company's position on expenses. It reads to be fairly solid in my favour, so it's worth discussing, and it's only minor inconvenience to me if it's not.

I have no idea why people are so hung up on defining what "occasional" is. It's like demanding to know how many hours of overtime is expected per year when a contract says OTE. I'd rather they say "when needed" as it's more genuine. Staffing, workload, project complications/crisis, etc are all unpredictable. They don't know the future and I know every project I work on has different demands. Any number they give is not going to be accurate for long, if at all.

Wicks said:

This is a long winded way to say, it may be to do with company policy/ HR/ Insurances etc.

I think this is pretty much it. HR have already said that the contract is standard issue and they always put where your department is located for the main office.

If I was going to be paranoid and assume my future manager/HR is lying by default before I've even started, be completely inflexible, and demand HR/legal modify a standard contract because the default wording doesn't fill me with joy (I'm a rank and file employee, not C-Suite); I'd be permanently unemployed because no job/manager would ever fit the bill or be permanently stuck on the bottom rung of the career ladder.

sheramber

akira181 said:

NCC1701-A said:

 So, contract still has your office as place of work, you're hoping custom & practice discussions with your manager will allow you to claim travelling costs & time, and occasional will be decided when it happens with alternative exit strategies if you're not happy. 

That's just life isn't it? You talk like adults and come to an arrangement. If it doesn't work, you go your separate ways. Any new job has an element of unknown.

It's up to me to demonstrate I can handle my responsibilities remotely and negotiate whether my presence is needed if they ask me to come in. Their travel policy dictates the company's position on expenses. It reads to be fairly solid in my favour, so it's worth discussing, and it's only minor inconvenience to me if it's not.

I have no idea why people are so hung up on defining what "occasional" is. It's like demanding to know how many hours of overtime is expected per year when a contract says OTE. I'd rather they say "when needed" as it's more genuine. Staffing, workload, project complications/crisis, etc are all unpredictable. They don't know the future and I know every project I work on has different demands. Any number they give is not going to be accurate for long, if at all.

Wicks said:

This is a long winded way to say, it may be to do with company policy/ HR/ Insurances etc.

I think this is pretty much it. HR have already said that the contract is standard issue and they always put where your department is located for the main office.

If I was going to be paranoid and assume my future manager/HR is lying by default before I've even started, be completely inflexible, and demand HR/legal modify a standard contract because the default wording doesn't fill me with joy (I'm a rank and file employee, not C-Suite); I'd be permanently unemployed because no job/manager would ever fit the bill or be permanently stuck on the bottom rung of the career ladder.

It you who brought up that the amount of ‘occasional ‘ could be a problem.  

As long as the travel is occasional as they claim (ad hoc, no regular meetings, etc), then I can live with it. 

Elliott.T123

williscreg said:

If the company is unwilling to adjust, you may want to consult an employment solicitor or union representative. They can advise you on your rights and whether this misrepresentation could be considered a breach of contract.

You could do this... but is it really worth it?

You will need to pay for the legal advice, even if you are correct how is that likely to go down with a new employer you haven't even started working for yet? I would imagine you would be told that actually they have changed their mind and unfortunately you aren't needed anymore.

Lets be fair there are 2 reasons the company are doing this:

1. They plan to expect you in the office more often than they have said or at least want to leave the door open to change that in the future
2. They just don't want to pay expenses when you do come to the office

Ultimately this comes down to do you trust the person who is going to be your manager when they tell you that you will only be in the office x number of days?

akira181

sheramber said:

It you who brought up that the amount of ‘occasional ‘ could be a problem.  

As long as the travel is occasional as they claim (ad hoc, no regular meetings, etc), then I can live with it. 

My OP asked whether or not my contract should state "Home" as my office instead of Blackburn as the job was advertised as Remote and in the interview they said occasional visits to the office when needed. It was others that insisted on getting a hard definition of "occasional", which I still believe is unrealistic for my role.

My boss told me that I'm essentially on a hybrid contract where they allow me to work from home (they don't like giving out home contracts apparently). So technically it is remote but not contractually, so I don't get expenses. Minor inconvenience but if I take the train, travel is paid working time so it balances out. I'm coming up on my 3rd month on the job and I haven't been asked to be in the office beyond the initial induction, so I don't think it matters much.

The boss is super chill and there's one other in the office in the same situation as me. He's been there for a couple years now and he avoids the office as much as possible (his words). He's was in the office for 2 days in 2024; once to replace his laptop, the other to say bye to a retiring colleague. So it sounds like everything will be as promised.

FlyMeSomewhere79

I start a new job soon and during the last few months of job hunting I was a bit wary of jobs adverts claiming to be remote etc, because it's open to interpretation. Many see remote as asking you to drive all over the country rather than being in an office. And I think the attending the office as needed bit would worry me in case something changes at work and they sudden want people in a lot more.

Luckily my new job does come with home working ability but the office is like 20 mins away so I can easily achieve a good balance thank god.