Remote Working and Travel Expenses?

penners324

Employer needs to put your home as your place of work and guarantee to reimburse reasonable travel and hotel costs to their site.

Otherwise walk away from it

saajan_12

akira181 said:

If most of my work is expected to be done at home with occasional site visits, surely my home is my Regular place of work and not Blackburn and expenses should be reimbursed?

Also, if the office is not my regular place of work, should the commute, or part of it, be considered working time? I would be doing a 8 hour day in the office with a 7 hour commute otherwise. 

You're focusing on the technical definition of 'place of work', but that only really affects the HMRC position on whether whether the travel costs can be deducted for taxes (if its just commuting then even if the employer reimburses, that pay would be subject to income tax). 

The more important bit is your above questions which clearly suggest you're on different pages. With whichever location on your contract, your company can say you need to travel to x location on your own time / cost if youre salaried. You need to specifically understand 
1) If you'll be reimbursed for travel expenses (& hotel if multiple days or if same day travel is not feasible)
2) If you'll be paid for the travel time (perhaps working on a laptop on the way, but that may be less efficient / private than being at a desk)
3) Then decide if you want to negotiate the above answers or walk away. 

akira181

Like with all contracts, it's "fill in the blanks" template that's fairly standardised. It's not as simple as one person at HR just scribbles whatever they want on a contract and job done. It's a large multinational company so i expect a contract change is quite laborious.

I've asked for their travel policy and I'll take it from there as that is really what defines whether or not expenses are paid, not what my line manager/HR contact assumes.

Grumpy_chap

I sense a risk of the job offer being withdrawn.

akira181

Grumpy_chap said:

I sense a risk of the job offer being withdrawn.

not helpful or even accurate. It's an unconditional job offer that's already been accepted. I sense someone that's not read the thread properly before chirping in.

As stated repeatedly, remote working has been confirmed in writing and paying for an occasional trip to the office isn't a deal breaker for me. The latter is just surprising.

I'm asking for clarification on how the office can be considered my work location when it's a remote role. Since the contract doesn't cover it, their travel policy is worth reading.

Andy_L

akira181 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I sense a risk of the job offer being withdrawn.

not helpful or even accurate. It's an unconditional job offer that's already been accepted. I sense someone that's not read the thread properly before chirping in.

As stated repeatedly, remote working has been confirmed in writing and paying for an occasional trip to the office isn't a deal breaker for me. The latter is just surprising.

I'm asking for clarification on how the office can be considered my work location when it's a remote role. Since the contract doesn't cover it, their travel policy is worth reading.

because your potential employer has decided that's how they want to word your contract. 

Grumpy_chap

akira181 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I sense a risk of the job offer being withdrawn.

not helpful or even accurate. It's an unconditional job offer that's already been accepted. I sense someone that's not read the thread properly before chirping in.

As stated repeatedly, remote working has been confirmed in writing and paying for an occasional trip to the office isn't a deal breaker for me. The latter is just surprising.

I'm asking for clarification on how the office can be considered my work location when it's a remote role. Since the contract doesn't cover it, their travel policy is worth reading.

I did read the whole thread.
An unconditional offer which you accepted so too late to be asking questions.
From what I read in the thread, the attendance at the office will be required more than the "occasional" you reference.

akira181

Grumpy_chap said:

I did read the whole thread.
An unconditional offer which you accepted so too late to be asking questions.
From what I read in the thread, the attendance at the office will be required more than the "occasional" you reference.

Okay Mystic Meg. The occasional I reference is a direct quote from my future employer (HR and line manager) but you know better.

A contract isn't a "sign here and forever seal your fate" type deal, it's never too late to be asking questions. Asking for the travel policy is completely within reason.

This thread has run it's course, the helpful commenters have been and gone.

NCC1701-A

akira181 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I did read the whole thread.
An unconditional offer which you accepted so too late to be asking questions.
From what I read in the thread, the attendance at the office will be required more than the "occasional" you reference.

Okay Mystic Meg. The occasional I reference is a direct quote from my future employer (HR and line manager) but you know better.

A contract isn't a "sign here and forever seal your fate" type deal, it's never too late to be asking questions. Asking for the travel policy is completely within reason.

This thread has run it's course, the helpful commenters have been and gone.

For the benefit of others that may find themselves in similar circumstances, what's the actual outcome? Does your contract now say Home or Office, can you claim travel & accommodation when you work at the office, is there a mutually agreed definition of occasional?

akira181

NCC1701-A said:

For the benefit of others that may find themselves in similar circumstances, what's the actual outcome? Does your contract now say Home or Office, can you claim travel & accommodation when you work at the office, is there a mutually agreed definition of occasional?

The contract is a "fill in the blanks" standard for all 100k+ of their employees. Presumably intentional for legal simplicity and to avoid being pigeonholed. My main office is still down as Blackburn as that's my HQ. It's where my reporting line and department are situated. My main work site isn't stated on the contract, technically I can go into any of their offices around the country if I just wanted an office environment to work in. 

Making an official change to a contract in a company that size is not something one person at HR or my line manager can do. It would take weeks, if not months, assuming they'd do it at all for a new start. There is no mobility clause and I have it in writing before and after signing the contract that my position is remote. It's not ideal but that will have to do.

The contract is vague on many items, such as expenses. Again presumably for legal simplicity, it's covered by policies which are easier to change. Their travel policy does seem to suggest that travel expenses should be paid if work requires me to come into the office that isn't my main work site but not if I choose to go in. The policy also seems to differentiate between main work site (where you do most of your work) and main office (where your department resides). 

Commuting time minus the first hour is also considered working time (my total commute time would be 7 hours total, 5 of which can be considered working hours). I'll discuss this with my manager face to face when I start in two weeks instead of over email via HR. Either way, I don't mind if it is indeed occasional. If it's more regular, the deal breaker would be the commute and not lack of expenses.

Occasional means when needed, not an arbitrary X times a week/month. I'm an engineer and will be working on various projects. It's impossible/meaningless to put a number on days in the office for projects that haven't even started yet. My line of work is dynamic and some flexibility is required. Some projects are more/less demanding than others.

So if there's training, my design is being manufactured, tested, installed, commissioned, started up, etc, they may ask me to go in or I may want to go in myself. I have it verbally confirmed that I won't be going in just for the sake of it (like an arbitrary X days a month) or just to attend meetings that I could otherwise call into. Only when it's required/beneficial for me to physically see or do something will I be called in.

That's all more than reasonable and will see just have to see how it plays out. Failing that, my current employer has already said they're happy to take me back anytime (possible pleasantry but also quite likely) and my previous employer is recruiting and been in touch in the last months. So I'm fortunate enough to have options if things go south.