What questions are asked by HMRC regarding NIC history when ringing up to claim SP?

MarcusHutch

molerat said:

As soon as I saw that 22 figure I worked out that £140.26 then is £167.57 now and you would reach £173.89, £6.32 more, with 23-24 contributions.  I think a lot of information is removed from the forecast once you get into the 4 month claiming window.

So to modify my earlier post

So on the information provided you need 9 more years to reach the full amount.  You could safely purchase up to 5 pre 2016 years but they only add  £5.65 each compared to £6.32 for a post 2016 year.  7 post 2016 years will take you to £211.81 plus 1 pre 2016 takes you to £217.46 with another adding the final £3.74. So your best option would be in order of value / cost - 20-21, 21-22, then the 5 22-23 and 16-17 to 19-20, 1 pre 2016 then if you want to go the whole hog another one from pre 2016 as that will be cheaper than 23-24 (£907.40) and although it doesn't fully give as much as a post 2016 year it will still only add the necessary £3.74.  If not going the whole way buying 23-24 instead of a pre 2016 year would give you an extra 67p for an additional £83.20 cost.

That's really helpful! Thank you so much! I'm on hold with them now to try to buy them, although I have time yet...

MarcusHutch

molerat said:

As soon as I saw that 22 figure I worked out that £140.26 then is £167.57 now and you would reach £173.89, £6.32 more, with 23-24 contributions.  I think a lot of information is removed from the forecast once you get into the 4 month claiming window.

So to modify my earlier post

So on the information provided you need 9 more years to reach the full amount.  You could safely purchase up to 5 pre 2016 years but they only add  £5.65 each compared to £6.32 for a post 2016 year.  7 post 2016 years will take you to £211.81 plus 1 pre 2016 takes you to £217.46 with another adding the final £3.74. So your best option would be in order of value / cost - 20-21, 21-22, then the 5 22-23 and 16-17 to 19-20, 1 pre 2016 then if you want to go the whole hog another one from pre 2016 as that will be cheaper than 23-24 (£907.40) and although it doesn't fully give as much as a post 2016 year it will still only add the necessary £3.74.  If not going the whole way buying 23-24 instead of a pre 2016 year would give you an extra 67p for an additional £83.20 cost.

That's really helpful. Thanks so much!

Guy at HMRC agreed with your 9 years.

However, he said that as I live abroad, I might be able to pay Class 2 NICs, which doesn't add up to me. I was a company director with my wife. We took dividends & paid salary, so not self-employed I would have thought. Any views please folks?

MarcusHutch

molerat said:

As soon as I saw that 22 figure I worked out that £140.26 then is £167.57 now and you would reach £173.89, £6.32 more, with 23-24 contributions.  I think a lot of information is removed from the forecast once you get into the 4 month claiming window.

So to modify my earlier post

So on the information provided you need 9 more years to reach the full amount.  You could safely purchase up to 5 pre 2016 years but they only add  £5.65 each compared to £6.32 for a post 2016 year.  7 post 2016 years will take you to £211.81 plus 1 pre 2016 takes you to £217.46 with another adding the final £3.74. So your best option would be in order of value / cost - 20-21, 21-22, then the 5 22-23 and 16-17 to 19-20, 1 pre 2016 then if you want to go the whole hog another one from pre 2016 as that will be cheaper than 23-24 (£907.40) and although it doesn't fully give as much as a post 2016 year it will still only add the necessary £3.74.  If not going the whole way buying 23-24 instead of a pre 2016 year would give you an extra 67p for an additional £83.20 cost.

Thanks so much for all of that. Much appreciated!

Guy at HMRC agreed with your 9 years figure.

Oddly though, he said I migth be able to pay Class 2 NICs. My wife & I were directors of our own 2 person company. We paid ourselves dividends & a salary. So I assumed Class 3 would be more appropriate… Anyone have any views please? (Clearly, Class 2 is much cheaper!)

MarcusHutch

Oops-hadn't realised we'd gone on to page 3. Thought my question (& thanks) got lost. Apologies!

molerat

Under what rules did they think class 2 was available - living overseas or possibly self employed ?

When were you employed / a director did you not pay NI ? When did you stop being employed and when did you move overseas ?

As you have not worked overseas then that avenue is not open and as an employee, even though a director, you are not self employed so I can't see that avenue being open either.

MarcusHutch

molerat said:

Under what rules did they think class 2 was available - living overseas or possibly self employed ?

When were you employed / a director did you not pay NI ? When did you stop being employed and when did you move overseas ?

As you have not worked overseas then that avenue is not open and as an employee, even though a director, you are not self employed so I can't see that avenue being open either.

Re class 2: I think it was due to no UK income except rental income...

I mostly took dividends (no NIC payable) instead of salary + NIC to be more tax efficient.

Thanks

MarcusHutch

Payment reference for missing years & how to pay for specific years please?

Hi again,

1. my HMRC letter (April) addressed to me outside the UK says use my NI # as a payment reference. The HMRC rep said use an international reference as I live abroad. Who is right please?
2. If I transfer the voluntary contributions electronically, how would HMRC or DWP know which years to complete? Back to using a cheque book (If I can find one!) & sending a covering letter?!

Many thanks in advance

pinnks

Before you pay, have you bottomed out the Class 2 point?

If you worked in the UK until immediately before you left and worked abroad (thus paying social security payments in your country of residence) then you should qualify to pay at the Class 2 rate.  If you meet the first condition but were not working for a week, or week, then you may get a mix of Class 2 and 3 for any year.  This has nothing to do with your employment/self-employment status before leaving the UK.

You will need to send form CF83 to HMRC to ask them to determine the Class 2/3 position for each gap year on your record.

Also, as you are abroad you do not use the 18-digit reference you get if you are UK resident.  Instead, you use your NI number, followed by IC, followed by your surname and as much of your other names as will fit in the reference box of your banks payment system.

You will need to call HMRC to ensure they allocate your payment to the years you want.

MarcusHutch

pinnks said:

Before you pay, have you bottomed out the Class 2 point?

If you worked in the UK until immediately before you left and worked abroad (thus paying social security payments in your country of residence) then you should qualify to pay at the Class 2 rate.  If you meet the first condition but were not working for a week, or week, then you may get a mix of Class 2 and 3 for any year.  This has nothing to do with your employment/self-employment status before leaving the UK.

You will need to send form CF83 to HMRC to ask them to determine the Class 2/3 position for each gap year on your record.

Also, as you are abroad you do not use the 18-digit reference you get if you are UK resident.  Instead, you use your NI number, followed by IC, followed by your surname and as much of your other names as will fit in the reference box of your banks payment system.

You will need to call HMRC to ensure they allocate your payment to the years you want.

Hi, re Class 2, I sent form CF83 to HMRC to ask them to determine the Class 2/3 position for each gap year on your record and they have put Class 3.

Many thanks for the tip re reference box for payment.

pinnks

Not meaning to be a total pedant but do you have a letter from HMRC in response to your CF83, or are you looking only at the online record.  I ask because the online record only ever shows the Class 3 cost.