UKPC – Parkhouse Court - Hatfield

maddiction

Hello all,

Looking for some help with a (couple of) parking pCN from UKPC @ Parkhouse Court – Hatfield.

Data of love note on car: 7-9-2024

Date of NTK’s:  2 x on 10/10/2024 (date on the letter, received a day or a few later)

First off I’m somewhat behind on dealing with this, life’s been getting in the way the last month or so…

I am playing catch up at the moment:  I am in process of writing to the establishment we visited on this occasion, to make them aware of my displeasure, ask them if they can do anything as it will negatively impact future visits (guessing they can’t do anything about a pay and display carpark next to them) and ask if they have any details of the land owner, so as I can write to them too.

I missed submitting an appeal on (day 26?) to try and frustrate the NTK, however that would not have entirely worked even if successful.

So I have received TWO NTK’s – for the SAME day – @ 15:34 and @ 15:39 so 5 minutes apart!! 

 

15:34 – ‘Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket’

15:39 – ‘Parked after the expiry of paid for time’  (this one they left the love note on the car for)

(Interesting to note both sets of pictures only show the one pCN stuck to the car, in exactly the same place, not sure how the 15:34 one could do this given the pCN is for the 15:39 claim, confused, its as if they are SCAMMERS).

Can they do this i.e. try it on with TWO ‘invoices’ for what is effectively the same thing?

Is this just a case of fight both separately and hopefully win both at POPLA, or worst case in front of a magistrate (I would be interested in their view on this vexatious ticketing)?

 

Car park had the usual UKPC (Poor) signage: Nothing visible to the driver entering the carpark, faded postage stamp sized signs above head hight with exceptionally small print on them etc, they even show these in there ‘evidence’ pictures.  One of the pay machines had a bag over it, the next closest the display was barely readable…. (I did go back and take some pictures of).

 

So to check I am on the right track (will still try the business and see if I can get any land owner information as mentioned above): next course of action is to use the couple of paragraphs in the newbie thread to make the initial appeal.  I am assuming the assumption is this appeal with be rejected so does not need much in the way of specifics to the matter?  But is it work adding about the obvious scam and my delight to see a magistrate give a view on this, especially their own ‘evidence’ that clearly shows just the one ticket on the car with reference to the times they have been given, should they wish to take the matter to court?  Also one of the occupants is diagnosed Autistic, so is the equalities act worth mentioning at this point or just a waste of time for the initial appeal?

 Also wanted to check what time period should I be getting this initial appeal in by (as mentioned life getting in the way at the moment..) ?

Thanks!

m

Coupon-mad

15:34 – ‘Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket’

15:39 – ‘Parked after the expiry of paid for time’  (this one they left the love note on the car for)

(Interesting to note both sets of pictures only show the one pCN stuck to the car, in exactly the same place, not sure how the 15:34 one could do this given the pCN is for the 15:39 claim, confused, its as if they are SCAMMERS).

Yes, who would have guessed?

Which PCN is correct? 

Gr1pr

Appeal each one separately, as explained in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

I cannot see how the person with disabilities can add to the appeal content, unless someone else thinks it can, especially on a pay to park car park 

Put a complaint in to UKPC using the BPA AOS members link, regarding the 2 PCNs for the same incident, after checking both closely, ensuring that they are different references, same dates and times etc

Check for POFA compliance too

Appeal by day 26 following the NTK issue dates, especially if you are trying plan A 

maddiction

Coupon-mad said:

15:34 – ‘Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket’

15:39 – ‘Parked after the expiry of paid for time’  (this one they left the love note on the car for)

(Interesting to note both sets of pictures only show the one pCN stuck to the car, in exactly the same place, not sure how the 15:34 one could do this given the pCN is for the 15:39 claim, confused, its as if they are SCAMMERS).

Yes, who would have guessed?

Which PCN is correct? 

Neither?  They are both ultimately a scam??!!

15:39 - Is the one they put a pCN on the car for and their pictures show an expiry time before the time stamp on their pictures (~25 minutes, I don't have the paperwork in-front of me to double check exact time difference alleged).  Technical no time was paid for, the first hour is free, with a free ticket, so does that make it the 15:34 NTK that they did not put a pCN on the car for??  I'm confused.

Can they just send an NTK without putting a ticket on the car?

maddiction

Gr1pr said:

Appeal each one separately, as explained in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

I cannot see how the person with disabilities can add to the appeal content, unless someone else thinks it can, especially on a pay to park car park 

Put a complaint in to UKPC using the BPA AOS members link, regarding the 2 PCNs for the same incident, after checking both closely, ensuring that they are different references, same dates and times etc

Check for POFA compliance too

Appeal by day 26 following the NTK issue dates, especially if you are trying plan A 

Will do that too.  Same incident, they have actually used a different set of pictures, but they are 5 minutes apart (their time stamp), nothing has change or moved, event their love note /pCN on the windscreen (the one they left for the 5 minutes later one, but is in the 5 minutes before photos....), or the 'free' ticket.  Both have separate reference numbers (and checking the evidence via there website shows two slightly different sets of photos of the same car in the same spot etc). dates are the same day, times are 5 min apart.

(Is this the email address from the BPA /bpa-approved-operators page ?  Complaint going to UKPC and not the BPA? )

I had read that UKPC usually issue POFA compliant NTK's,  is it still worth posting a (redacted) copy of both?

So first appeal needs to be with them by 5th November. thanks.

m

 

Gr1pr

An NtK can be posted to the registered keeper regardless of any windscreen PCN or not , issuing a windscreen PCN is not mandatory 

There should only be one PCN per incident 

The complaint is to go to UKPC, you cannot complain about it to the BPA until you have had a reply to the complaint, the BPA website tells you this, so its the complaint link you use, it can be an email if that is what it says, but some require an online complaint, so you use the information provided by the complaints link 

You should be checking the NTK against the NTK examples thread by coupon mad , to see about compliance 

Castle

The NTK issued on 10th October for the non windscreen event on 7th September would have been received too late for POFA.

maddiction

Castle said:

The NTK issued on 10th October for the non windscreen event on 7th September would have been received too late for POFA.

I am assuming they will argue that a notice to driver was issued though, sighting the picture of the one attached the windscreen as evidence.  However the driver knows this is in fact for the second one (time stamped 5 min later), but how would the registered keeper (who is been perused under the pofa for the alleged debt)?

m

Castle

maddiction said:

Castle said:

The NTK issued on 10th October for the non windscreen event on 7th September would have been received too late for POFA.

I am assuming they will argue that a notice to driver was issued though, sighting the picture of the one attached the windscreen as evidence.  However the driver knows this is in fact for the second one (time stamped 5 min later), but how would the registered keeper (who is been perused under the pofa for the alleged debt)?

m

Well, they are going to have to produce two different NTD's so if you have access to any photos on their website I'd suggest that you download them now.

I would also suggest that you contact DVLA and find out if they requested the RK's details twice.

LDast

Breach of the Single Code of Practice at section 8.3:

8.3. Parking operators must ensure that they only issue Parking Charges in accordance with their advertised terms on any site. Such terms shall not entitle any operator to issue more than one parking charge in the same calendar day for the same parking event.

NOTE: In the event of a new calendar day, the operator must not issue a further Parking Charge for the same parking event within a 12-hour period from when the previous Parking Charge was issued. Where a vehicle is moved at any point, this constitutes a new parking event.

Coupon-mad

maddiction said:

Castle said:

The NTK issued on 10th October for the non windscreen event on 7th September would have been received too late for POFA.

I am assuming they will argue that a notice to driver was issued though, sighting the picture of the one attached the windscreen as evidence.

They won't because the postal NTK will refer to paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 (probably) and will offer the discount and not refer to having served a NTD on the driver already.

A NTK that follows a windscreen PCN has the above extra words but refers to para 8 and offers no discount.