eBay seller insisting I pay return postage although I remember it saying the seller pays

LightningBolt

It seems the seller and I aren't going to come to an agreement.  While I'm waiting for the 4 days to lapse so I can get eBay to step in, I'm posting this in the hope that I can get some advice in the meantime.

I bought a replacement part for my fridge via eBay, expecting I would be able to fit it.  The seller appears to be a business rather than a private seller.  It's a UK-based seller.

However, when it arrived, I couldn't for my life figure out how to get the pieces to interlock.  No instructions were provided.

So I contacted the seller for instructions, but he wouldn't provide any.  He suggested I search YouTube, but I found nothing compatible.  He should have performed this search himself but clearly didn't.  A further suggestion was that I contact a local appliance engineer, but I was worried that this would cost me more money.

Common sense tells me that, if you sell any kind of functional product, you have a duty to make sure those who buy it can use it.  Is there anything to this effect in law?  In any case, the fact that I couldn't get instructions means the part is not fit for purpose.

In the end, I made alternative arrangements, which meant I how have no use for the part the eBay seller had sent me.  So I initiated the return process.

However, the seller told me I have to pay the return postage.  Right now, the product page states "Buyer pays for return postage" but I am sure it previously stated the seller pays this, including when I initiated the return process.  However, the seller is denying this.

Additionally, I strongly suspect that the seller is engaging in rogue trading practices:

• It appears that he has actively refused to take reasonable measures to find instructions, such as going back to the source of the product (I can't imagine nobody having instructions anwhere in the whole supply chain) and asking those who have previously bought the part and posted positive reviews how they got it to fit.
• From the high proportion of positive reviews and little mention of difficulty fitting it, it furthermore appears that the seller is soliciting fake reviews.
• For all I know, the part might be impossible to fit, which would make the seller guilty of selling a useless product.

I note that SADFART includes "satisfactory" and "fit for purpose", but does not include "free from hidden catches".  Still, I would expect there to be something in law to this effect?

What I would like to know is:

• Do I indeed have the right to return this product for a refund under my statutory rights?
• When returning something under statutory rights, is it ever legal for the seller to make the buyer pay the return postage?  If so, in what circumstances?
• If a seller's product listing states "seller pays return postage" when I ordered it, when I initiated the return process or at any time between, is the seller obliged to honour this?  Moreover, can there ever be hidden conditions to this term?  I suppose this question applies both to statutory-rights returns and to returns that are allowed in addition to this.
  
• If I had arranged a local appliance engineer and had to pay for the service, would I be within my rights to bill the seller for this, as it is a hidden cost associated with the part that was sold to me?
• If the seller has indeed engaged in rogue trading practices, what further legal protection does this give me?

Thanks in advance.

Andy_L

LightningBolt said:

Common sense tells me that, if you sell any kind of functional product, you have a duty to make sure those who buy it can use it.  Is there anything to this effect in law?  In any case, the fact that I couldn't get instructions means the part is not fit for purpose..

I've bough plenty of car parts that have never come with installation instructions so that seems unlikely

LightningBolt

Andy_L said:

LightningBolt said:

Common sense tells me that, if you sell any kind of functional product, you have a duty to make sure those who buy it can use it.  Is there anything to this effect in law?  In any case, the fact that I couldn't get instructions means the part is not fit for purpose..

I've bough plenty of car parts that have never come with installation instructions so that seems unlikely

Hmm.  Are those car parts that

• were straightforward out of the box to fit?
• you knew in advance you were likely to need a trained car mechanic to fit?
• looked at first like they would be straightforward to fit, but turned out not to be?
  

powerful_Rogue

Did the listing say it came with instructions on how to fit, or a manual etc? If not then I can't see you have much of a claim.

powerful_Rogue

LightningBolt said:

It seems the seller and I aren't going to come to an agreement.  While I'm waiting for the 4 days to lapse so I can get eBay to step in, I'm posting this in the hope that I can get some advice in the meantime.

I bought a replacement part for my fridge via eBay, expecting I would be able to fit it.  The seller appears to be a business rather than a private seller.  It's a UK-based seller.

However, when it arrived, I couldn't for my life figure out how to get the pieces to interlock.  No instructions were provided.

So I contacted the seller for instructions, but he wouldn't provide any.  He suggested I search YouTube, but I found nothing compatible.  He should have performed this search himself but clearly didn't.  A further suggestion was that I contact a local appliance engineer, but I was worried that this would cost me more money.

Common sense tells me that, if you sell any kind of functional product, you have a duty to make sure those who buy it can use it.  Is there anything to this effect in law?  In any case, the fact that I couldn't get instructions means the part is not fit for purpose.

In the end, I made alternative arrangements, which meant I how have no use for the part the eBay seller had sent me.  So I initiated the return process.

However, the seller told me I have to pay the return postage.  Right now, the product page states "Buyer pays for return postage" but I am sure it previously stated the seller pays this, including when I initiated the return process.  However, the seller is denying this.

Additionally, I strongly suspect that the seller is engaging in rogue trading practices:

• It appears that he has actively refused to take reasonable measures to find instructions, such as going back to the source of the product (I can't imagine nobody having instructions anwhere in the whole supply chain) and asking those who have previously bought the part and posted positive reviews how they got it to fit.
• From the high proportion of positive reviews and little mention of difficulty fitting it, it furthermore appears that the seller is soliciting fake reviews.
• For all I know, the part might be impossible to fit, which would make the seller guilty of selling a useless product.

I note that SADFART includes "satisfactory" and "fit for purpose", but does not include "free from hidden catches".  Still, I would expect there to be something in law to this effect?

What I would like to know is:

• Do I indeed have the right to return this product for a refund under my statutory rights? - If it's a business seller then you have 14 days from the date of delivery.
  
• When returning something under statutory rights, is it ever legal for the seller to make the buyer pay the return postage?  If so, in what circumstances? Yes, for a change of mind return if they say the buyer has to cover the return postage. Many retailers do this.
  
• If a seller's product listing states "seller pays return postage" when I ordered it, when I initiated the return process or at any time between, is the seller obliged to honour this?  Moreover, can there ever be hidden conditions to this term?  I suppose this question applies both to statutory-rights returns and to returns that are allowed in addition to this. Will be your word against theirs. Do you have a screenshot or anything saying they will honor return postage?
  
• If I had arranged a local appliance engineer and had to pay for the service, would I be within my rights to bill the seller for this, as it is a hidden cost associated with the part that was sold to me? Not in the slightest
  
• If the seller has indeed engaged in rogue trading practices, what further legal protection does this give me? Depends what you class as rogue
  

Thanks in advance.

Answers in bold.

Jumblebumble

LightningBolt said:

Common sense tells me that, if you sell any kind of functional product, you have a duty to make sure those who buy it can use it.  Is there anything to this effect in law?  In any case, the fact that I couldn't get instructions means the part is not fit for purpose.

I

Would you expect Miele to give you instructions on how to fit a pressure switch  they sold you for your dishwasher?
Well if you did you would be sadly disappointed.
It is ludicrous to suggest the pressure switch would be  not fit for purpose 
Maybe you would expect Miele to lend you any special tools needed to fit spare parts correctly as well

LightningBolt

Jumblebumble said:

Would you expect Miele to give you instructions on how to fit a pressure switch  they sold you for your dishwasher?

Why shouldn't I?  If they made the dishwasher, they must know how to fit the pressure switch and hence be able to tell me.

LightningBolt

powerful_Rogue said:

Did the listing say it came with instructions on how to fit, or a manual etc? If not then I can't see you have much of a claim.

Is that relevant?  When you buy a product, if it isn't something you can pick up and just use right away then it's a pretty basic expectation that instructions will be provided.  Can you imagine buying a ready meal with no heating instructions, or any kind of complex appliance having no manual?

Even more to the point, can you imagine, when you go back to the supermarket about that ready meal having no instructions, them saying "sorry, there aren't any" and just leaving you in the lurch?

As such, I would say it's the seller's duty to warn us they have no information whatsoever on how to use the product they're selling.  And furthermore that it isn't straightforward enough not to need instructions, as it looked to me like it was.

Aylesbury_Duck

LightningBolt said:

Jumblebumble said:

Would you expect Miele to give you instructions on how to fit a pressure switch  they sold you for your dishwasher?

Why shouldn't I?  If they made the dishwasher, they must know how to fit the pressure switch and hence be able to tell me.

Able, yes, but they're not obliged to.  If you want technical advice or instructions, you need to purchase from retailers that provide it.

I happened to buy a car battery and new headlight bulbs last week.  Neither came with any instructions for fitting. Nor would I have any right to insist they pay for someone to fit them for me.

eskbanker

LightningBolt said:

I bought a replacement part for my fridge via eBay, expecting I would be able to fit it.  The seller appears to be a business rather than a private seller.  It's a UK-based seller.

If the fridge manufacturer accepts that such parts are replaceable by the customer, do they offer any assistance with fitting instructions?

powerful_Rogue

LightningBolt said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Did the listing say it came with instructions on how to fit, or a manual etc? If not then I can't see you have much of a claim.

Is that relevant?  When you buy a product, if it isn't something you can pick up and just use right away then it's a pretty basic expectation that instructions will be provided.  Can you imagine buying a ready meal with no heating instructions, or any kind of complex appliance having no manual?

Even more to the point, can you imagine, when you go back to the supermarket about that ready meal having no instructions, them saying "sorry, there aren't any" and just leaving you in the lurch?

As such, I would say it's the seller's duty to warn us they have no information whatsoever on how to use the product they're selling.  And furthermore that it isn't straightforward enough not to need instructions, as it looked to me like it was.

Of course it is. You bought a replacement part and received just that.

The eggs and meat I purchased from the butcher didn't come with any cooking instructions. Should they cover the cost of me getting a chef to come round and cook me a mixed grill?