Nforce Parking Management - £170 for a 3 min infringment

refusingtopay2024

Nforce Parking Management - £170 for a 3 min infringment in a small shop carpark out of trading hours.

Initial PCN never received (presume never sent as my V5 has correct address). ZZPS £170 invoice arrived weeks later.

Have SAR back from PPC showing the stay was under 3 minutes! Awaiting SAR from DVLA to see if PPC searched before the stated PCN date but will assume they did.

One attempt to talk to landowner – failed to get to the manager; will try again.

My questions:

Is the short period of the infringement a valid court defence against the £170 fee? 

Are Nforce / ZZPS / GCTT a litigious bunch or will they just bluster?

Thanks

Gr1pr

The actual PCN from Nforce would have been for £100 , not £170. £100 has been the typical maximum charge for over a decade, so no point complaining about that figure, its standard and well known 

The SAR reply from Nforce should include a copy of the original PCN which will state that the charge was £100

The added £70 is a the spurious debt collectors fee

ZZPS. ( or any debt collectors. )  cannot issue a court claim, but Nforce may do, within the 6 years following the incident date 

show us a redacted picture of the PCN that claims this 3 minutes aspect, seems to fail any reasonable consideration period under any CoP, smacks of forbidding signage 

fisherjim

As above sounds like a case of no parking between the hours of.......and........ or no parking when business is closed in which case they will say there is no consideration period pay up but the new joint COP isn't specific on this as far as I can see I wonder why!

In reality there can be no contract formed as there was no offer of parking, but they won't tell you that they will still try to scam you.

Coupon-mad

As you now have the NTK from the SAR please post both sides of it here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6483542/a-thread-of-pictures-of-parking-firm-ntks/p1

We need an NForce one and by showing it we can advise you better.

refusingtopay2024

Coupon-mad:  NTK posted.

The SAR returned 6 images the time span between them was 3 mins 02 secs. 

refusingtopay2024

My other question would be:  If I go to court and lose what is the likely cost going to be? Is it capped?

Coupon-mad

 But that's already answered in the NEWBIES thread. Of course it is peanuts (small claim = low cost). No risk.  Please read the second post of the sticky thread.

That NTK is non-POFA because the 28 day period is not correctly stated.

refusingtopay2024

Coupon-mad said:

 But that's already answered in the NEWBIES thread. Of course it is peanuts (small claim = low cost). No risk.  Please read the second post of the sticky thread.

That NTK is non-POFA because the 28 day period is not correctly stated.

Thank-you.  I have read that 2nd post and it isn't clear to me what the costs could be. Could the £170 'invoice' become a £500 enforecable court order?  Or £300?  What figure would you think most likely, please?

Do you think that the sub 5 min stay constitutes the basis of a viable defence? 

You'd like to hope a judge would see how unfair that charge is!  On that basis, by the time you/ve got out of the car to read the sign, you're technically in breach of their contract before you've had the opportunity to decide whether to acceot the terms!!

Coupon-mad

£212.  If you lose.  That's the likely total. Not the costs. The total.

This is why we do it!

And yes you'd probably win. We see enough cases to know likely outcomes where no fair consideration period was allowed.

Having said that, I'd never have parked there in a million years.  I'm saying this to make the driver realise what they could have done:

Stay on street. Pull over on the public highway for quick errands (as long as you don't cause an obstruction nor stop in a bus stop or on a red route). Don't specially look for bays or shop forecourts.  Don't seek car parks or marked spaces off the road to temporarily stop a car.

ANPR/CCTV scameras are everywhere.

Use the kerb.This is what double yellows are there for (I'm always amazed some drivers don't know that)! Most of my friends - ladies of a certain age like me who have been driving for decades - actually thought double yellows mean 'no stopping'. Astonishing.

NForce Parking Management ......... NTK

refusingtopay2024

Coupon-mad said:

£212.  If you lose.  That's the likely total. Not the costs. The total.

This is why we do it!

And yes you'd probably win. We see enough cases to know likely outcomes where no fair consideration period was allowed.

Having said that, I'd never have parked there in a million years.  I'm saying this to make the driver realise what they could have done:

Stay on street. Pull over on the public highway for quick errands (as long as you don't cause an obstruction nor stop in a bus stop or on a red route). Don't specially look for bays or shop forecourts.  Don't seek car parks or marked spaces off the road to temporarily stop a car.

ANPR/CCTV scameras are everywhere.

Use the kerb.This is what double yellows are there for (I'm always amazed some drivers don't know that)! Most of my friends - ladies of a certain age like me who have been driving for decades - actually thought double yellows mean 'no stopping'. Astonishing.

Thank-you. That is really helpful.  I would rather fight, lose and pay £250 than meekly cough up £170.

The girl I spoke to at the shop, not the proprietor, said that the camera had brought loads of aggro with people throwing the NTK/debt letters at her. People taking their spaces had been a problem but she'd rather go back to that.

If I had received the NTK I would have paid the £60 and put it down to experience. But the dirty trick of claiming to have sent it when they haven't, in order to 'justify' £170 and no appeal, stinks and the Government really needs to address this sharp practice.

And yes, I'm embarassed to admit that I thought double-yellow meant 'no stopping' ! 

I will update this thread as the process moves forward.

Johnersh

interesting its a staff or customers only breach alleged. I’d have tried to have the o/p for “showroom parking” - parked at an angle across 2 bays. 

So now it’s pure grace periods and the fact that the parking contract is arguably impossible to perform since the driver cannot be a customer when the shop is shut and the terms don’t even allow a driver to pull up and establish that without being immediately charged.