Deceased dies Intestate - Personal Representative

henryhallsdanceband

My brother-in-law died a week ago intestate…certainly as far as we have yet ascertained.  He has no spouse, children or grandchildren.  He is survived by his mother and sister (my wife).  He has no property but across all savings and investments his estate is likely to be £40k-£50k (so administration most likely required).

Rules/laws for identifying who can act as his personal representative in applying for Letters of Administration indicate that his mother (my mother-in-law) has priority in that respect.  However his mother is a fragile 94 yr old with dementia, and so would be unable to act as her son’s personal representative.  Next in line of priority is his sister - my wife.  My wife would prefer me to deal with the matter, and be the one administering her brother’s estate.

Questions.

1) Do we need to have form PA14 completed to state my MiL is not fit to act as PR for her son.
2) Do we need to complete a form (PA14 or similar) to state that my wife is not willing to act as administrator.
3) Can I apply for Letters of Administration for my BiLs estate without going through 2) above - I assume that in the first instance 1) above is absolutely required.

Thankyou

RAS

Your wife cannot appoint you to administer the estate. There is nothing to stop you helping her if she wishes that, but she'd need to sign the documents.  But most banks now pass funds to a personal representative based on the death certificate and evidence of the relationship, up to £30k and sometimes more.

henryhallsdanceband

RAS said:

Your wife cannot appoint you to administer the estate. There is nothing to stop you helping her if she wishes that, but she'd need to sign the documents.  But most banks now pass funds to a personal representative based on the death certificate and evidence of the relationship, up to £30k and sometimes more.

By this do you refer to the fact that on the death certificate my wife is identified as the informant with relationship sister.

Plus since you didn’t mention it in your response I assume that for my wife to apply to be granted Letters of Administration she must first get form PA14 completed for her mum.

RAS

It is very unlikely that your wife or her mother need letters of administration. Your mother in law inherits under intestacy laws assuming BIL lived in England and Wales

Your wife can contact the bereavement team at each of the banks/financial institutions where he held money. Advises that he's died and ask what they need to release the money, confirming that the money will be dealt with under intestacy rules. Since MIL will inherit, it may be wise to ask that the money goes into an account in her name. 

The banks will tell her what they want. Most will ask for his death certificate, and since the money goes to his mother, I suspect his birth certificate so they can establish the relationship. But each bank has it's own rules.

Either your wife or her mum will have to sign a form to confirm that if anyone else turns up who has a better claim they will be responsible for rectifying the situation.

silvercar

Does the MiL have capacity? If she still has her faculties and has a reasonable size estate herself she may want to consider a deed of variation to pass the inheritance to your wife directly. 

Grumpy_chap

silvercar said:

Does the MiL have capacity? If she still has her faculties and has a reasonable size estate herself she may want to consider a deed of variation to pass the inheritance to your wife directly. 

That may well not be possible as the OP stated:

henryhallsdanceband said:

his mother is a fragile 94 yr old with dementia, and so would be unable to act as her son’s personal representative.  

As a genuine question / learning point - can a DoV be put in place when an Estate is Intestate, or does there have to be a Will before there can be a DoA?

Savvy_Sue

Grumpy_chap said:

As a genuine question / learning point - can a DoV be put in place when an Estate is Intestate, or does there have to be a Will before there can be a DoA?

I've seen that question answered on here before, to the effect that yes you can do a DofV when an estate is intestate, same rules would apply, ie (as a quick and non-legal summary):

• it must be done within two years of the death (ie not two years from when you get the Letters of Administration)
• any party disadvantaged by the Deed must agree to it. 
• any party who cannot agree to the Deed may NOT be disadvantaged by it (minors, those without capacity)
• any party whose situation is not changed by the Deed doesn't have to agree, or even know about it. 

Google will get you lots more detail, some of it from real solicitors!

tls123

Does anyone hold POA for your mother in law if she has dementia she is unlikely to be able to do a DOV as she needs to understand it. 

silvercar

tls123 said:

Does anyone hold POA for your mother in law if she has dementia she is unlikely to be able to do a DOV as she needs to understand it. 

Anyone holding POA has to act in the person’s best interests. A deed of variation wouldn’t make any difference to the MiL in this case, other than moving money out of her accounts, and so couldn’t be done by someone with POA. It would need to be done by the MiL herself, but if she doesn’t have capacity, she can’t do it and nor can anyone do it on her behalf.

henryhallsdanceband

tls123 said:

Does anyone hold POA for your mother in law if she has dementia she is unlikely to be able to do a DOV as she needs to understand it. 

Yes…my wife has LPA on Finance and Property matters…as well as Health.

My MiLs dementia is not so bad as to render incapable of understanding things, but her ability to do so varies hugely and her short term memory seems pretty non-existent…for example she seems to have forgotten her son had died the day after we told her…and she hasn’t had any recall on it - or so it seems.

henryhallsdanceband

RAS said:

It is very unlikely that your wife or her mother need letters of administration. Your mother in law inherits under intestacy laws assuming BIL lived in England and Wales

Your wife can contact the bereavement team at each of the banks/financial institutions where he held money. Advises that he's died and ask what they need to release the money, confirming that the money will be dealt with under intestacy rules. Since MIL will inherit, it may be wise to ask that the money goes into an account in her name. 

The banks will tell her what they want. Most will ask for his death certificate, and since the money goes to his mother, I suspect his birth certificate so they can establish the relationship. But each bank has it's own rules.

Either your wife or her mum will have to sign a form to confirm that if anyone else turns up who has a better claim they will be responsible for rectifying the situation.

This is our experience of last week.  On the basis of my wife presenting his death certificate and her own ID verification, one High St bank was happy to release the savings and investments my BiL had with them to my MiL; another will only do it when it is confirmed (as best as is reasonably possible) that my BiL did not have a will in place - they wouldn’t even tell my wife how much he had with them…might be £5, might be £5000 - not that it matters to us as it will go to my MiL.