Probate not applied for after 10 months

RedTCat

bobster2 said:

It is confusing that on the one hand you say you are certain that you are a beneficiary of the will - but yet you are complaining that you haven't been shown the will. You can only know the former for sure if you've seen the will.

The timescales don't sound that unusual at the moment - and it doesn't sound like any laws have been broken. Traditionally there is the "executor's year" - for 12 months following a death, executors are under no obligation to start distributing funds following a death. And even then many estates take quite a bit longer to deal with.

You are not personally entitled to receive interest - but during the administration period the value of an estates assets may increase (e.g. due to interest receipts, or a property gaining value). So if you're a residual beneficiary - you would get a portion of that increase when the final distributions are made.

My father and I discussed his "passing" many years ago - he wanted to make sure I was "looked after". Nothing would have changed since, as we have continued our "normal" father and son relationship.
I presume the house might have increased in value ... 

RedTCat

Keep_pedalling said:

If your father has left you his share of the house and he had a professionally drawn up will, it is almost certain that he did it via an immediate post death interest trust, which would mean that currently his widow is now the beneficial owner and legal ownership sits within the trust and you would not inherit until her death.

It is also possible that probate may never be applied for, it is not required for the house and unless he held other assets that would need probate for them to be released.

You can check with the land registry for the current situation regarding ownership, and it would be worth signing up for a property alert to alert you to any changes that occur.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Unfortunately all you have at the moment is speculation as you father failed to inform you of his attentions were while he was still alive. 

Despite a conversation with my Father many years ago, the property was put in their joint names some time ago. I'm not sure what the "cash" situation was regarding limits for probate. 

swingaloo

Being in joint names means nothing. Are they Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common?

bobster2

RedTCat said:

bobster2 said:

It is confusing that on the one hand you say you are certain that you are a beneficiary of the will - but yet you are complaining that you haven't been shown the will. You can only know the former for sure if you've seen the will.

The timescales don't sound that unusual at the moment - and it doesn't sound like any laws have been broken. Traditionally there is the "executor's year" - for 12 months following a death, executors are under no obligation to start distributing funds following a death. And even then many estates take quite a bit longer to deal with.

You are not personally entitled to receive interest - but during the administration period the value of an estates assets may increase (e.g. due to interest receipts, or a property gaining value). So if you're a residual beneficiary - you would get a portion of that increase when the final distributions are made.

My father and I discussed his "passing" many years ago - he wanted to make sure I was "looked after". Nothing would have changed since, as we have continued our "normal" father and son relationship.
I presume the house might have increased in value ... 

Unfortunately it's what he did or didn't write down in a will that will be the key factor - rather than any discussions. And whether he wrote a new will after marrying.

mattojgb

You really need to start by finding if the house is/was owned as joint tenants or tenants in common. You can look up a copy of the title deeds at the registry (£3.50 I think it costs).

Is there any possibility you would have been named as executor?

Marcon

RedTCat said:

frayedknot said:

Theres a few red flags for me. They refused to let you see the will is one. They lied about probate application. They blindsided you w ith the funeral.

 If you are in the will and set to inherit half the house where's his new wife going to live? Any solicitor would see the problems in this and advise accordingly ,maybe his wife retains a lifetime interest in the house.

If the will is as you say why would his wife seek probate to a will that leaves her homeless. Maybe the wife is better off under the intestacy rules and the will becomes mysteriously lost. Maybe the wife will challenge the will as it does not adequately provide for her. There's a lot of ifs and buts and the early signs are not encouraging.

Sorry I couldn't be more positive.

That is interesting - if not "positive"! His wife is very old - and really they should both have moved to a smaller property 10 or more years ago. Selling the house would provide her enough to pay for a nursing home place for the rest of her life - based on her age now.

That could be why probate is taking a long time... I'm afraid you just have to wait and see if you are included as a beneficiary. Why are you so sure that probate hasn't been applied for?

RedTCat said:

km1500 said:

do you know for certain who is / are the executor(s)?

No! I'm told that his wife is executor - didn't know you could be executor and beneficiary...

Wife might be executor and sole beneficiary, which is why she has nothing to gain by actually getting on with obtaining probate. 

If you've not seen the (most recent) will, I don't think you can be sure you are a beneficiary. What people say - especially aging parents - and what they actually do are often wholly different, particularly if they are looking for a quiet life. 

Marcon

RedTCat said:

I'm being deliberately vague about details to avoid identifying anyone. 
Dad died Dec 2023, I am his only living blood relative. His wife - who is not my mother - has not yet applied for probate. She has a large extended family - her granddaughters are supposed to be helping her. They organised funeral etc, without consulting me. The have refused to let me see the will. I was told in Jan 2024 probate had been applied for. I checked on the gov.uk probate web site, but *still* probate has not been applied for.
Is there a time limit to apply - are they breaking the law?
I would assume I have been left half of the house, therefore I'm losing interest on anything I would have invested. Am I entitled to claim against the Estate?

EDIT: Please help with answers to the two questions above, fixating over *if* I'm in the will etc, is not helpful.

This thread has gone on a bit, so not sure if your original questions have been answered.

Nobody but the executors are entitled to see the will until after probate has been granted.

There is no legal time limit for applying/obtaining probate.

No,  if (as you believe) you are a beneficiary, you can't claim against the estate purely because things have not gone as fast as you seem to think is possible. Probate typically takes up to a year to be granted, and it is for the executor to arrange the sale of the house, if that's what the will requires. In the current market that could take another year, possibly longer. Given the widow still lives there, it is quite possible the will contains no such requirement.

If the widow is very elderly, and has just lost her life partner, maybe you need to take that into account...?

RAS

The OP must check the Land Registry and report back whether the house is a joint tenancy or tenants in common?

It's not unknown on this forum for a parent to leave their half of a property to their children and completely fail to sever the tenancy.

RedTCat

bobster2 said:

Unfortunately it's what he did or didn't write down in a will that will be the key factor - rather than any discussions. And whether he wrote a new will after marrying.

There was a new will after he re-married.

Marcon said:

RedTCat said:

That is interesting - if not "positive"! His wife is very old - and really they should both have moved to a smaller property 10 or more years ago. Selling the house would provide her enough to pay for a nursing home place for the rest of her life - based on her age now.

That could be why probate is taking a long time... I'm afraid you just have to wait and see if you are included as a beneficiary. Why are you so sure that probate hasn't been applied for?

Wife might be executor and sole beneficiary, which is why she has nothing to gain by actually getting on with obtaining probate. 

If you've not seen the (most recent) will, I don't think you can be sure you are a beneficiary. What people say - especially aging parents - and what they actually do are often wholly different, particularly if they are looking for a quiet life. 

I have been in communication with the granddaughter of his wife - and they originally told me probate had been applied for (Jan 2024), more recently they told me it had not been applied for. I think it's clear I'm being ****ed around with.
As has been said by Marcon "Nobody but the executors are entitled to see the will until after probate has been granted." - so I've no clue about the will, and I'm legally prevented from seeing it.

RedTCat

Marcon said:

This thread has gone on a bit, so not sure if your original questions have been answered.

Nobody but the executors are entitled to see the will until after probate has been granted.

There is no legal time limit for applying/obtaining probate.

No,  if (as you believe) you are a beneficiary, you can't claim against the estate purely because things have not gone as fast as you seem to think is possible. Probate typically takes up to a year to be granted, and it is for the executor to arrange the sale of the house, if that's what the will requires. In the current market that could take another year, possibly longer. Given the widow still lives there, it is quite possible the will contains no such requirement.

If the widow is very elderly, and has just lost her life partner, maybe you need to take that into account...?

Thanks Macron - no - no one had answered my questions!

It's perplexing that "Nobody but the executors are entitled to see the will until after probate has been granted." it makes it impossible to know if - for example - I would have a case for having probate suspended. This happened when my mother passed away - someone objected to probate being obtained.

While she is elderly, she has a lot of support. She now has what she wanted, my father was just a burden. That is why I had nothing to do with her.