My ongoing boundary dispute ordeal/odyssey (advice sought)

silvercar

I’m confused why the map with the numbers 9 and 10 on it seems to make the neighbours front garden triangular, but the pictures of the houses makes the neighbours front garden a rectangle almost.

ThisIsWeird

FlorayG said:

You could put up a fence just a couple of inches inside your boundary? Then you have a nice resin path on your land, thank you very much neighbour

The neighbour has a right to go over the OP's pathway, just as ditto. So a fence would interfere with that right.

I hope the OP is still using that strip, tho', at least as often as they did before.

The OP appears to be a measured, cautious fellow, and not given to be provocative behaviour - unlike the twit of a neighbour ('harassment' by delivering a letter - really!), and this will almost certainly serve him well should this escalate. But, I think they also need to not be put back on the back foot, and should behave in a 'matter of fact' way. For instance, following the previous bolshie attitude of the neighbour, the OP held back - probably a good call anyway - but they shouldn't be intimidated from using what is rightfully theirs.

The OP sauntering down that 'old' path would also make the neighbour realise what a twit they've been.

Section62

silvercar said:

I’m confused why the map with the numbers 9 and 10 on it seems to make the neighbours front garden triangular, but the pictures of the houses makes the neighbours front garden a rectangle almost.

Optical illusion in the pictures I think.  The difference in level is also having an effect.  But if you imagine a line extending the flank wall of the neighbour's house (10) out to the layby (as per the plan) then it does appear to be more or less where the path is - i.e. a triangular shape.

E.g. -

ThisIsWeird

These are weird boundary lines, tobesure. And I wonder if the neighb thought that this could help obfuscate their devious move?
Because these lines are weird, with the OP's 'seemingly' cutting across the neighb's - it looks as tho' the OP has actually little to lose by giving up most of that old path for a suitable sum, assuming they still have good pedestrian access to their house?
But...I would empathise to the OP, please do not allow any encroachment by them over the frontage of your property in this agreement. Their proposed line - and actual resin drive - needs to be tweaked, kinked to follow what would be an expected perp boundary line from the houses.*
And also, once this is sorted, and you have a few £k in your pocket, please plant a bludy great big tree in that roadside triangular corner of yours, deciduous of course, as it's gagging for it.

Now't like messy leaves all over a new resin driveway...

*On this note, if you didn't want to force them to dig up that presumptions bit of resin in front of your house, all you'd have to do - once the deeds have been rewritten - is to erect some sort of boundary feature so that they absolutely, and visibly, have no right to cross over that mid-point line in front of your house.

Schwarzwald

pobjoy said:

.... My neighbours' new parking surface doesn't just encroach on my land, it covers a piece of council-owned land between the road and legal boundary of their front garden. The road-end of the old path - and the land either side of it - was/is owned by the local Highways dept, while the remaining two-thirds of the path is divided longitudinally between my property and my neighbours'. I think it's quite possible that my neighbours only realised this quite recently, and are now in something of a quandary. Obviously, while I can sell them some of the land on which the path once stood, I can't sell them all of it as a portion belongs to the local council.

My present intention is to give my neighbours another month to purchase my bit of the path (until November 15) then, if nothing has happened, bite the bullet and commission a boundary survey from a firm with Party Wall Act expertise (I think it's quite possible the removed path would be considered a 'party structure' in law) and maybe contact the council asking if they intend to take action. Right now I have no real idea of the best/cheapest way to use the courts to get the path reinstated. Hopefully the boundary survey firm I use will give me some advice on this, but if anyone reading this has any suggestions, I would be very interested to hear from you.

 

THIS and NOT maybe.
Definitely contact the council.
Have them pursue it.
Neighbor had enough time to get it sorted with yout.
One would expect the council has some duty to pursue this ... let them (help to) sort it out. 

ThisIsWeird

Schwarzwald said:

THIS and NOT maybe.
Definitely contact the council.
Have them pursue it.
Neighbor had enough time to get it sorted with yout.
One would expect the council has some duty to pursue this ... let them (help to) sort it out. 

I would keep that wee nugget in reserve :-) If you inform the LA now, and they do become involved, it'll be chaos. Beautiful chaos, but chaos.

It all depends on what outcome the OP wants.

Now that the OP understands the calibre of their neighbour, I think what I would do in their position is;

a) Ensure any move towards an agreed land move does not include coming over my house frontage - so the existing resin drive layout is unacceptable and must be changed. (Whether physically removed is up to you. As long as you put up a new boundary marker, it doesn't matter that much. Another nice wee negotiating tactic - "you don't have to dig it up, as long as...").

b) Accept that this old path and associated strip of land is next to useless to me, and having to 'share' it with a rancid neighbour is undesirable. Perhaps conclude - but keep to oneself - that having a clearly defined separation is a better outcome moving forward. Did I mention to keep that to oneself?

c) Ponder what to do with the £k that is almost certainly coming your way. That agreed sum must be the final amount to be handed over to you, less all your costs so far. On that point, perhaps make it clear that any agreement will have to include your ever-increasing costs.

d) Negotiate on the basis that they are currently trespassing, and that you will take legal action to remove that resin from your land. If they don't remove it voluntarily, then you will get a contractor in to do so, and will sue them for the cost - and almost certainly win.

e) 'Grudgingly' come to an agreement to sell them that contentious strip of land, 'against your better judgement' as you love that path so much, but will - out of sheer kindness - consider it just to bring this sorry matter to a quick conclusion. Any more procrastination, and you may change your mind...

f) Drop into conversations such wee nuggets as, "If I run my wheelbarrow up this resin drive of yours, of course trying to keep within the now-invisible boundary line, and I accidentally bump into your parked car, who will decide if I accidentally crossed over your line, or you accidentally parked on mine?", and, "That's an interesting strip of land next to the road, don't you think? I wonder who actually owns it, and whether they mind..."

Section62

Schwarzwald said:

pobjoy said:

.... My neighbours' new parking surface doesn't just encroach on my land, it covers a piece of council-owned land between the road and legal boundary of their front garden. The road-end of the old path - and the land either side of it - was/is owned by the local Highways dept, while the remaining two-thirds of the path is divided longitudinally between my property and my neighbours'. I think it's quite possible that my neighbours only realised this quite recently, and are now in something of a quandary. Obviously, while I can sell them some of the land on which the path once stood, I can't sell them all of it as a portion belongs to the local council.

My present intention is to give my neighbours another month to purchase my bit of the path (until November 15) then, if nothing has happened, bite the bullet and commission a boundary survey from a firm with Party Wall Act expertise (I think it's quite possible the removed path would be considered a 'party structure' in law) and maybe contact the council asking if they intend to take action. Right now I have no real idea of the best/cheapest way to use the courts to get the path reinstated. Hopefully the boundary survey firm I use will give me some advice on this, but if anyone reading this has any suggestions, I would be very interested to hear from you.

 

THIS and NOT maybe.
Definitely contact the council.
Have them pursue it.
Neighbor had enough time to get it sorted with yout.
One would expect the council has some duty to pursue this ... let them (help to) sort it out. 

For the reasons I gave in my earlier post I'd say this should be a "maybe" not a "definitely".

I'd say there is some doubt whether the land is actually highway, and even if it is, there is no obvious harm resulting from the neighbour paving over a small triangle of rough grass.  If the land is highway then technically they have probably committed an offence of unlawful interference, but again, what harm has been done to justify enforcement action by the highway authority?  The main issue of concern is if there is utility plant under that land, but if there is they are entitled to dig it up to get access to their plant just as they can dig any other surface within the highway.

The council's 'duty' is in Section 130 of the Highways Act 1980 - "...to assert and protect the rights of the public to the use and enjoyment of any highway for which they are the highway authority, including any roadside waste which forms part of it".  By paving this area the neighbour hasn't really affected the public's ability to 'use and enjoy' the highway, any more than the previous concrete path impacted on the public right.  As I said, it would be different if the neighbour was fencing the land off, or for that matter if he starts shouting at people walking on that area and tells them it is his private driveway and they should keep off it.

It is impossible to predict what any highway authority might or might not do, but based on my own experience there is a real risk of the HA having a look at this and saying "whetevs" - I don't think it is the silver bullet some forum members suggest.  They might take action, but if they don't and instead say it isn't a problem then it hands the neighbour a mini victory - the neighbour could truthfully say the council have looked at what they have done and have 'officially' given the OK. I wouldn't risk giving them the opportunity to do that, not without exhausting other options first.

silvercar

Any giving away of land will need your mortgage lenders agreement.

ThisIsWeird

silvercar said:

Any giving away of land will need your mortgage lenders agreement.

That is potentially a good point.

The more I look at this case, tho', the more that I would personally prefer the new arrangement; no shared areas, no RoWs, yes a bit of loss of half a path-width that ain't exclusively yours anyhoo - big deal - and a few grand in t'pocket.

I'd be more inclined to buy the OP's house with the new arrangement, than I would currently. I would even hazard that, if anything, the house would be worth more. But don't tell anyone else this.

(With the non-encroaching boundry line proviso).

annetheman

Wow, you have serious writing talent - what a riveting story you told! It may be because I am stuck in HMLR limbo (8 months waiting for my house purchase with a relatively simple FR1 application seemingly beyond the abilities of my seller's solicitors - we are on application number 3, don't hold your breath...) that I am really curious to see what happens here.

I hope you don't mind that I follow along despite having nothing useful to add whatsoever -- and sincerely hope a resolution goes your way ASAP!