Mum needs full time care soon. Advice required on paying for this

smithereens

Hi there,

My Mum will need full time care very, very soon. Mum and Dad have their own home, paid up, worth more than 600k. They have savings, more than 50k. They live in a London borough. I am aware of the 23K assets threshold. Also aware that if my Dad remains in that house, the house property is not included as part of those assets. I think the options are: they want to stay together in a care home;they want to stay in the house with a live-in carer; Dad stays in the house alone.

In terms of paying for this care, I see alot of adverts on these equity-release, but I find them all very suspicious.

I really need good solid honest advice. Thanks.

elsien

Before you look at equity release or anything like that, you need to properly look at the cost and viability of all the options. 

It depends on your mum‘s needs, but my grandmother had to go into a care home because she got to the stage where she needed two carers because of her mobility and that just wasn’t affordable. 

If there’s a big difference in the support, your mum and dad needs, it’s possible that they weren’t be accepted by the same care home so again I think you need to explore that in a bit more detail. If your dad doesn’t have any care needs, it’s possible that a care home wouldn’t accept him anyway. 

Presuming the savings are split between them, 25K is not going to go far with a live-in carer in London and when the money runs out a local authority is not going to  fund that for someone to stay at home

So properly looking at what is doable and for how long before you think about funding, I would suggest is the way to go. 

Has your mum had a needs assessment from the local authority? 

Brie

If they sold the house outright (rather than equity release) they might be able to get a nice place to live together.  You might want to check out the costs of nice places (as opposed to what the council will pay for).  So might be £3-5k a week?  So the house money would last 2 - 3 years?

Doing equity release might mean that mom would have money to pay for her care and the local authority wouldn't be fussed what was happening.  But how long would that money last?  And then another round of ER to keep her where she's settled?

Or she could move else where - so could dad - and prices would be cheaper.  MiL lived in a place, ok but not grand, settled there by the LA when they insisted she had to leave hospital.  It was about £1k a week and she'd almost run out of money when she died.  You might want to consider how different this is to a live in carer - who will need days off and not be available 24/7.

elsien

Live-in care is normally one or two weeks on then the same amount of time off. So it’s normally more than one carer alternating. 

And then the carer has the right to a 2 hour break a day. Plus cover for holidays, sickness, et cetera I have a friend who does this. 

lr1277

My dad had 2 carers come in 4 times a day; getting up and breakfast. lunchtime, mid-afternoon to move him around and then evening meal/bed time.

My dad stayed at home because he was supported by my mum who made his meals. She couldn't do the personal care and didn't think he would always take the medicines from her.

The first care company insisted on a single hospital style bed and 2 carers per visit. Until the single bed arrived he was sleeping on his normal double bed. Basically the care company said one person could not manage him.

In order to get the single bed in (supplied by the NHS or social services), we had to move the double bed out and put it into storage. We did that because mum thought they had paid a lot for the double bed. It turned out the storage costs over 9 months was more than the cost of the bed. Choose wisely.

We had lots of support from whichever organisation with equipment for dad including the bed, floor mats (in case he fell out of bed) and some other stuff.

If you get a single carer, ensure they can lift your mother back into bed by themselves. As mum couldn't as dad fell out of bed during the night, she would call the ambulance. The staff would check him out (ie no injuries) then put him back in bed.

We found a  2nd care company (recommended by social services/whoever) and in South Hertfordshire, they charged (IIRC) about 1000-1200 per month for those 4 daily care visits with 2 carers per visit. A 2nd care company was also recommended but their rates were about 20-30% more per hour.

The other thing was we tried a carer for a whole night and this was done for 3 nights. Mum hated there was someone always in the house.

Should you get carers either for 24 hours or for timed visits, speak to your GP or practice nurse. They should have contact details for whichever department in the county council/NHS can help with your situation. We were put through to the helpful department after dad had a stay in hospital and the care package was part of his discharge requirements.

In terms of care companies we already had experience with the 2nd company recommended. Their staff were good but as I said more expensive. Part of this might have been they always answered the phone. The cheaper company we used had very good carers, but the admin/managers were harder to contact. Function of price, I don't know?

You need to find your own solution but hope I have given you some pointers based on my family's experience.

smithereens

elsien said:

Before you look at equity release or anything like that, you need to properly look at the cost and viability of all the options. 

It depends on your mum‘s needs, but my grandmother had to go into a care home because she got to the stage where she needed two carers because of her mobility and that just wasn’t affordable. 

If there’s a big difference in the support, your mum and dad needs, it’s possible that they weren’t be accepted by the same care home so again I think you need to explore that in a bit more detail. If your dad doesn’t have any care needs, it’s possible that a care home wouldn’t accept him anyway. 

Presuming the savings are split between them, 25K is not going to go far with a live-in carer in London and when the money runs out a local authority is not going to  fund that for someone to stay at home

So properly looking at what is doable and for how long before you think about funding, I would suggest is the way to go. 

Has your mum had a needs assessment from the local authority? 

Thanks. She has: daily visit for one hour, with two hours twice a week.

However my Dad is getting up 3 times a night lately to help my Mum, and is exhausted. I'm beginning to think night time care might be needed, for the sake of my Dad who is nearly 90.

smithereens

Brie said:

If they sold the house outright (rather than equity release) they might be able to get a nice place to live together.  You might want to check out the costs of nice places (as opposed to what the council will pay for).  So might be £3-5k a week?  So the house money would last 2 - 3 years?

Doing equity release might mean that mom would have money to pay for her care and the local authority wouldn't be fussed what was happening.  But how long would that money last?  And then another round of ER to keep her where she's settled?

Or she could move else where - so could dad - and prices would be cheaper.  MiL lived in a place, ok but not grand, settled there by the LA when they insisted she had to leave hospital.  It was about £1k a week and she'd almost run out of money when she died.  You might want to consider how different this is to a live in carer - who will need days off and not be available 24/7.

Interesting alternative. Thank you.

smithereens

elsien said:

Live-in care is normally one or two weeks on then the same amount of time off. So it’s normally more than one carer alternating. 

And then the carer has the right to a 2 hour break a day. Plus cover for holidays, sickness, et cetera I have a friend who does this. 

Interesting, good to know, thank you.

smithereens

lr1277 said:

My dad had 2 carers come in 4 times a day; getting up and breakfast. lunchtime, mid-afternoon to move him around and then evening meal/bed time.

My dad stayed at home because he was supported by my mum who made his meals. She couldn't do the personal care and didn't think he would always take the medicines from her.

The first care company insisted on a single hospital style bed and 2 carers per visit. Until the single bed arrived he was sleeping on his normal double bed. Basically the care company said one person could not manage him.

In order to get the single bed in (supplied by the NHS or social services), we had to move the double bed out and put it into storage. We did that because mum thought they had paid a lot for the double bed. It turned out the storage costs over 9 months was more than the cost of the bed. Choose wisely.

We had lots of support from whichever organisation with equipment for dad including the bed, floor mats (in case he fell out of bed) and some other stuff.

If you get a single carer, ensure they can lift your mother back into bed by themselves. As mum couldn't as dad fell out of bed during the night, she would call the ambulance. The staff would check him out (ie no injuries) then put him back in bed.

We found a  2nd care company (recommended by social services/whoever) and in South Hertfordshire, they charged (IIRC) about 1000-1200 per month for those 4 daily care visits with 2 carers per visit. A 2nd care company was also recommended but their rates were about 20-30% more per hour.

The other thing was we tried a carer for a whole night and this was done for 3 nights. Mum hated there was someone always in the house.

Should you get carers either for 24 hours or for timed visits, speak to your GP or practice nurse. They should have contact details for whichever department in the county council/NHS can help with your situation. We were put through to the helpful department after dad had a stay in hospital and the care package was part of his discharge requirements.

In terms of care companies we already had experience with the 2nd company recommended. Their staff were good but as I said more expensive. Part of this might have been they always answered the phone. The cheaper company we used had very good carers, but the admin/managers were harder to contact. Function of price, I don't know?

You need to find your own solution but hope I have given you some pointers based on my family's experience.

Very interesting, good info, thanks very much.

elsien

Honestly, I think you might struggle to find nighttime care. Most people who made that level of health are in care homes, and a live-in carer is not going to want to be up several times during the night.

sheramber

A few years ago my mother had a night time carer.

It was a set fee for the night and an extra charge for each time the carer had to get up to attend to her.

She was bedridden and  had turned night into day. As she  refused to go into care, her GP  said she had to have someone available overnight.

She did have a carer for a morning visit to bath her etc, meals on wheels for lunch, a cerer to make her tea and a 'tuck in' visit for bedtime.