Joint benefit claim?

leamingtonspaceman

I already claim legacy income related ESA and am in the support group. I also get full PIP.

My partner isn't working, having finished work a year ago.

She has a tribunal pending for PIP and has made a claim for new style ESA as she made contributions for 2021/22 and 2022/23.

We don't live together but are getting married soon. We then plan to live together in a house she is buying from her money she inherited from her father.

I'm finding it difficult to understand what will happen with our benefits when we move in together? Another helpful member has answered this partly on another thread, but there are still scenarios I'm unsure about.

We will probably move into the new house at different times, either me first or her first, depending on the situation. We're moving somewhere nearly three hours drive away.

Given the above, I'd like to know what happens if she moves into the house first, and if I move into the house first?

If we're both already claiming ESA, I know it will become a joint claim, but whose claim takes precedent?

If she can't claim new style ESA, then she'll have to claim UC. What happens then?

Would it be better for her to not claim new style ESA or UC now and just wait until we are actually living together and it becomes a joint claim on my legacy ESA?

I'm also confused that you can claim new style ESA and claim UC concurrently, but your ESA is reduced by your UC? Why would anyone do that and why is it even an option?

Thanks in advance...

sammyjammy

It would be better if you kept to your original post or its gets confusing and wastes peoples time.

ESA and moving home... - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

leamingtonspaceman

sammyjammy said:

It would be better if you kept to your original post or its gets confusing and wastes peoples time.

ESA and moving home... - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Thanks.

Yes, I'm aware of that thread.

It's kind of part of my autistic make-up that led me to post again. In my own head it makes it easier but I know that's not the same for everyone.

Apologies if that has created confusion.

Spoonie_Turtle

leamingtonspaceman said:

I'm also confused that you can claim new style ESA and claim UC concurrently, but your ESA is reduced by your UC? Why would anyone do that and why is it even an option?

It's the other way round.  A person's UC is reduced by the amount they get of ESA.  It's an option because ns-ESA is a contribution-based benefit whereas UC is fully means-tested.  The same with new-style JSA, Carers' Allowance (not contributions-based but not means-tested either), State Pension, legacy contributions-based ESA, and a handful of other benefits.

There are many reasons someone might claim both together. 
For some, they might have had income too high for UC (or income that reduced any UC lower than ESA payments) and then circumstances changed so they could now claim UC. 
Some claim both as a sort of insurance against no longer qualifying for UC in the future due to e.g. savings or moving in with someone - even if they're not expecting anything like that to happen, ESA has a window to be able to claim it after stopping work and if you don't, you'd be left with no income-replacement benefit if after that window circumstances changed so you were no longer eligible for UC. 
Some claim both because ESA is fortnightly and they find that cashflow easier to deal with than only getting a UC payment once a month. 
Some might just claim both on principle, simply that they're entitled to both so will claim them.

And any single person claiming new-style ESA in the Support Group *should* claim UC as well if they're eligible, because UC with LCWRA pays more than ESA Support Group, and claiming UC passports to some other forms of help.

leamingtonspaceman

Spoonie_Turtle said:

leamingtonspaceman said:

I'm also confused that you can claim new style ESA and claim UC concurrently, but your ESA is reduced by your UC? Why would anyone do that and why is it even an option?

It's the other way round.  A person's UC is reduced by the amount they get of ESA.  It's an option because ns-ESA is a contribution-based benefit whereas UC is fully means-tested.  The same with new-style JSA, Carers' Allowance (not contributions-based but not means-tested either), State Pension, legacy contributions-based ESA, and a handful of other benefits.

There are many reasons someone might claim both together. 
For some, they might have had income too high for UC (or income that reduced any UC lower than ESA payments) and then circumstances changed so they could now claim UC. 
Some claim both as a sort of insurance against no longer qualifying for UC in the future due to e.g. savings or moving in with someone - even if they're not expecting anything like that to happen, ESA has a window to be able to claim it after stopping work and if you don't, you'd be left with no income-replacement benefit if after that window circumstances changed so you were no longer eligible for UC. 
Some claim both because ESA is fortnightly and they find that cashflow easier to deal with than only getting a UC payment once a month. 
Some might just claim both on principle, simply that they're entitled to both so will claim them.

And any single person claiming new-style ESA in the Support Group *should* claim UC as well if they're eligible, because UC with LCWRA pays more than ESA Support Group, and claiming UC passports to some other forms of help.

Thanks for this. 

I still don't understand it though?

If you had income too high for UC, then how would you get new style ESA, because your income would be from working, and ESA is for those not working?

So you could be in a situation where you can't claim new style ESA or UC because you missed a window to claim new style ESA?

Should my partner put in a claim for UC as well as the claim for new style ESA she's already made?

I can see that both require an assessment to decide if you can or can't work. So will she need two assessments?

I know you'll probably think these are dumb questions, but it really is hard to understand.

poppy12345

New style ESA isn't means tested because it's a contributions based benefit only. This means that living with a working partner, capital and pensions of up to £85/week do not affect the amount you're entitled to. 

If you don't have the correct NI contributions in the previous 2 tax years then no you will not be entitled to New style ESA. 

Whether your partner is entitled to UC will depend on their circumstances. As it's means tested if they have capital of more than £16,000 they are excluded from claiming. Did you mention they have capital of more than this in your previous thread? This is the problem when starting new threads with a similar question, it's very difficult to keep up. 

leamingtonspaceman

poppy12345 said:

New style ESA isn't means tested because it's a contributions based benefit only. This means that living with a working partner, capital and pensions of up to £85/week do not affect the amount you're entitled to. 

If you don't have the correct NI contributions in the previous 2 tax years then no you will not be entitled to New style ESA. 

Whether your partner is entitled to UC will depend on their circumstances. As it's means tested if they have capital of more than £16,000 they are excluded from claiming. Did you mention they have capital of more than this in your previous thread? This is the problem when starting new threads with a similar question, it's very difficult to keep up. 

I apologise for the confusion.

She won't have any savings after we've bought the house.

Yes, I understand that new style ESA is contribution based and UC is income based. I understand the income and capital limits for both.

She has paid contributions for 2021/22 and 2022/23.

She has a pending PIP tribunal and has put in a claim for new style ESA today.

I just can't seem to find out what happens when we move in together? We will move in at different times, either her first or me first depending on the circumstances.

I'm getting legacy income based ESA, and full PIP and you mentioned previously that, if I move in first my disability premium will end when she moves in and it becomes a joint claim, but will be reinstated if she successfully claims PIP.

But...

1. What if she moves in first but has not been awarded new style ESA or PIP by the time I move in?

2. What if she moves in first and has been awarded either new style ESA and/or PIP by the time I move in?

3. What if I move in first and she has not been awarded new style ESA or PIP by the time she moves in?

4. What if I move in first and she has been awarded new style ESA and PIP by the time she moves in?

I can't seem to find any information regarding these scenarios?

poppy12345

Although she won't have capital after she buys the house, if she has more than £16,000 now then she will not be entitled to any UC. 

1/ Then you will need to report the changes to ESA and you'll be sent a form to fill in which will ask you details about her. Your entitlement will then be based on your joint circumstances. Unless she's already claimed UC and then it will be a change of circumstances and you'll need to claim UC with her. This will then end your Income Related ESA. 

2/ The same applies but her NsESA will be treated as income and will be deducted from your Income Related ESA. You will still need to report the changes to ESA for your claim. If her PIP includes the daily living part then you'll be entitled to couples SDP. 

3/ Question already answered in number 1 above. (without the UC part) 

4/ same as number 2. 

5/ However, in the meantime you may receive a letter to migrate to Universal Credit and if this happens you'll have 3 months in which to claim. Once you submit your claim your Income Related ESA will end 2 weeks later. Once you move in together you'll need to report changes and she will need to start a claim herself. You will receive a linking code to join both claims together. Her NsESA (if entitled) will be deducted in full. 

You are making this more complicated than what it is. 

Edit to add, if you live together before a decision is made on her PIP then you'll lose the SDP. Which was advised on your other thread. -head hurts-

Spoonie_Turtle

poppy12345 said:

1/ Then you will need to report the changes to ESA and you'll be sent a form to fill in which will ask you details about her. Your entitlement will then be based on your joint circumstances. Unless she's already claimed UC and then it will be a change of circumstances and you'll need to claim UC with her. This will then end your Income Related ESA. 

Would there be an option for partner to close her UC and go onto OP's ESA instead?  (If OP hasn't had to migrate by then.)

poppy12345

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

1/ Then you will need to report the changes to ESA and you'll be sent a form to fill in which will ask you details about her. Your entitlement will then be based on your joint circumstances. Unless she's already claimed UC and then it will be a change of circumstances and you'll need to claim UC with her. This will then end your Income Related ESA. 

Would there be an option for partner to close her UC and go onto OP's ESA instead?  (If OP hasn't had to migrate by then.)

I don't think that's possible but happy to be corrected.

Yamor

poppy12345 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

1/ Then you will need to report the changes to ESA and you'll be sent a form to fill in which will ask you details about her. Your entitlement will then be based on your joint circumstances. Unless she's already claimed UC and then it will be a change of circumstances and you'll need to claim UC with her. This will then end your Income Related ESA. 

Would there be an option for partner to close her UC and go onto OP's ESA instead?  (If OP hasn't had to migrate by then.)

I don't think that's possible but happy to be corrected.

As long as the UC claim had already terminated, then I believe this would be possible