Septic tank worries from first time buyer

countrycrib38

Hi all, I am about two months into purchasing my first home, costing me every penny I have (and some!) the home is set in a gorgeous and large garden in a little hamlet with stunning views and we’re beyond thrilled. Now it is very old and we’ve decided to take on the home repairs as
we can fund them in our own time. it also has a septic tank which we know nothing about (well a lot more now) but one google search and it’s pretty clear how the importance of it complying and not being a polluter is. We’ve asked all the right questions and gotten back “not known” to everything. Now I have no problem people literally not knowing but the sellers
said it was rented out so I’m thinking surely they can at least find out from said tenants when it was last emptied, did they maintain it, the letting agency might know? But every time we Insist on more information they send back the exact same replies. Their lack of concern for the legal implications is staggering-then again they said they bought the home in 2008 and it was already in situ then-so it’s ooold and didn’t need to comply and no one really gave a so and so about them back then. We reached the decision we need a survey and asked they get it emptied. No, they won’t even empty it. Which seems like the courteous thing to do given none of the waste in there is mine!
basically looking for advice if this is normal, do I need to calm down and just see what the survey says, or is it highly likely it’s gonna be a beat up tank that’s unfit for purpose anyway given it’s age and lack of maintenance….thanks!!

youth_leader

When I sold my house in 2020 I received a very long list of questions from the buyer's solicitor about my shared septic tank.  I had a semidetached 1847 railway station, grade II listed,  the shared drain was in my courtyard. The original Deeds had a hand drawn plan of the septic tank arrangements for the station and the railway cottages, it showed that the soakaway was on the land next door which had been sold separately in the 1970's. 

You can download the Deeds (Title) for £3.00 and they might also have a plan of the septic tank route?  The modern rules for tanks are here, but I'm sure you've already looked at these - General binding rules: small sewage discharge to the ground - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

PS unfortunately we suddenly had to empty the tank every few months and we suspected the neighbour on the land next door had damaged our soakaway.  He would not allow us access to inspect it and we had to go to a solicitor, so I had to declare as a dispute when I sold.    

user1977

Isn't your solicitor giving you any advice?

Where did you get the idea that it was normal for a seller to empty a septic tank immediately before a sale? Never heard of that myself.

Bigphil1474

If it was me, I'd calm down and see what the survey says. Does depend where the tank is, how good it was installed in the first place, how old it is etc.. It could well be a golden example of engineering at the time, or a beat up piece of crap that needs replacing. From what I've seen, you are looking in the region of £5k to replace it, depending on size, so you could just factor that cost in anyway. If it's an otherwise perfect house, I wouldn't want to lose it for the sake of where your doodoo goes.

gm0

The rules (and the guidelines) do keep changing.  What was once legal may now not be.  A lot of 20/30/40 year old installations were compliant but now are not.  And at *replacement* something different may be needed.  Key words being at replacement.  Not everything that isn't compliant (now) is notfiable. to EA.  There are guidelines for that too - last time I checked and it is possible to "not to be able to do the same again" and also "not to have to tell EA now".

It is completely rational for a seller to say "don't know".  If they mis-represent on official forms.  That creates a potential liability.  Their solicitor may well advise "don't know" in areas of ambiguity.  "Not knowing" does not get them in hot water.  Incentive to not know is obvious.

It is odd though to not just pay £100-£200 for a tanker empty and just send you an invoice copy that this has happened.  We empty ours of residual solid waste every 12 months. It's not a big deal.

We have a 25-30 year old installation. Which is on land where the boundaries make keeping the "official" distances (as they now are) from a site edge or roadway problematic. Nature of the land. Yet it is a good quality in service life tank with a soakaway repaired once in 25 years. And causes no issues to anyone.  And could last another 20-30+ years without issues.  Perhaps the soakaway will need attention again in a decade or so. 

It is quite likely that in a discussion about replacement of a tank on a difficult site - that the "new rules" would result in a powered tank "mini-treatment" plant - which is exactly the same as a normal old tank - but with a stirrer (bubbles or  a stirrer paddle).  And then the water flows off to the soakaway "exactly" as before into the ground.  Treatment=stirring.  And empty solids annually (or so) as before.  It needs power. (Which can cost to put in).  And has more moving parts/so can fail. 

The practical problem that can arise with off mains sewerage is weather - flooding/excessively wet winters where the water table rises and the ground is saturated with excess rainfall.  Depending on the topology.  A soakway does not work as well once the surrounding area is entirely sodden.  So the amount of input - before it backs up - goes down in those conditions.  This is not a legal issue - just a practical one.  About how "big" the soakway is vs the size of flow from the household and how "wet" the land gets in winter and the fall of the land.

As a prior owner.  And as a buyer of an off mains drainage property - I would be interested in the age and condition, and that it is unshared - under my control.  And where it is on the property.  So what the practical issues are of replacing it or redigging/extending a soakaway at some point.  If the tank has a massive patio, home office shed, hot tub and gazebo built over and around it leaving only a minor access hatch exposed - then it is more problematic to do works on than one buried in a lawn or flowerbed.  And also where power is. (not a lot of power needed normal ring main - not oven circuits).  All those are things which can be assessed in terms of risk and potential cost to you later in a *visit* to the property.  Dancing with solicitors - who never see the property - about it is is largely a fruitless exercise.

youth_leader

I'd forgotten the rain.  Stupidly we had gravel around the shared drain, my husband had died and I was still struggling when the tank decided to back up on a freezing October day.  My neighbour knocked in his rubber gloves, he'd done his best.  Digging pooey gravel definitely wasn't on my bucket list.

sheramber

https://www.gov.uk/permits-you-need-for-septic-tanks/existing-discharges

DullGreyGuy

Living in Scotland sceptic tanks are much more common and appreciate that the EA guidelines have changed since I worked for the water authority. 

Current guidelines are to empty it annually, our official advice (as a very uncommercial company) was empty it when its needed but every few years was sufficient for a well running tank. The process of emptying can be disruptive and at times customers complained that the process didnt work as well weeks after an emptying than it had been before. Some people hate the idea that their backgarden is full of their poo and get their tank emptied monthly. 

We used to sell a starter kit for tanks too but the recommendation was always that the better approach was to find some not fresh roadkill and drop that into the tank instead of paying us for the starter. Is cheaper and arguably better. 

There is no reason for them or you to empty it just because the house has been sold. 

mark_cycling00

I would say it's very common to not really know where your tank is exactly and not to have emptied it yet never experienced any problems.

However people are always aware roughly where it is and avoid planting trees or building on it. 

There's a difference between plastic and the very old brick type though and either with a leak will usually be well known to the owners and their neighbours. 

It's very scary buying when there are unknowns and you don't feel you have the facts.

If it helps, consider the WhatsApp groups for nearby villages there I've been in for over 5 years. 
Every blooming week in winter someone is asking for a boiler repair man. Same with roofers after a storm.
But noone ever, ever asks about septic tank problems. 

Sometimes people believe that if it's emptied it takes a long time for the bacteria levels to get back to normal, so owners won't want to do this if there's a chance that you don't buy the house.

They might also be very careful owners, only using ecover cleaning products etc. and be insulted about demands to clean it out. 

Anyway, it's not a certainty that your sellers are being devious or deliberately unhelpful, or negligent.

user1977

DullGreyGuy said:

Living in Scotland sceptic tanks are much more common  

I find that difficult to believe. 

DullGreyGuy

user1977 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Living in Scotland sceptic tanks are much more common  

I find that difficult to believe. 

The first or second part? 

The former was true at a point in time and when working for the water authority. 

The later Scotland clearly has more than Wales or N. Ireland. It's fairly close proportionally between Scotland and England. However, in Scotland when selling a home you have to have a certificate from the water authority to say if the property is on mains water and sewerage; despite you potentially having paid us for 50 years we cannot rely on that alone to issue the certificate and have to come out to check... it wasnt that uncommon that on inspection it turned out you weren't actually on mains sewer and so you got a refund and the appropriate cert; as such I'd argue the Scotland number is understated. In principle it could go both ways but never came across a case where we thought someone was on a tank or private water and turned out they were actually on mains.