Roof Repairs- Unaware of during purchase. HELP!

JessiceHope03

Looking for any advise please....

We have recently purchased a flat where we are now share of freehold owners, there are 3 x flats in total and 3 share of freeholds. The property is managed via a limited company that all the owners are directors of.

During the conveyancing process we were made aware of the fact that the property may need some roof repairs in the near future but to date nothing had been confirmed any only an intitial quote had been obtained. We were made aware of this a week before we exchanged and 2 weeks before we completed on the property. 

Subsequently, since moving in we have been in touch with the other share of freehold owners who have informed us that this problem has been ongoing since March this year when a survey was conducted on the roof and that they instructed and confirmed someone to complete the work next week on the day we completed on the property. They are now stating we are responsible for 1/3 of the repair cost including the survey which happened in March!

I have asked for all correspondence on this with the previous owner (the person we bought the property off), however it does seem they were only made aware of this themselves 2 weeks before we completed on the property (Start of September), the other freeholder had the survey conducted and was obtaining quotes without making them aware.

Does anyone know where we stand on this at all and whether we are liable to have to pay for these costs? My intitial thoughts were that we dispute this with the solicitors involved in the conveyancing process but it seems the seller also wasn't made aware of this, and super 'convenient' that they booked the work the day we completed on the property.

Any advise greatly appreciated!

user1977

Did you get separate confirmation of the position from the freeholders prior to exchange? Or only from your seller?

EssexHebridean

Did the seller notify their solicitor of this prior to exchange? Or even prior to completion? (It's unclear whether they heard about these confirmed works prior to exchange or not). 

Allowing that the roof works were known about, was any retention arranged against costs for that? Or any discussion about how these would be apportioned? 

You only have a dispute with your solicitors IMO if the sellers confirmed the repair to their solicitors, and their solicitor confirmed that to yours, who then did not pass that information on to you. I suspect that is an unlikely scenario though I'm afraid. It's not fair to blame your solicitor for not passing on information that they didn't have, though! 

What did the LPE1 form say about the roof repairs, would be another question. (Although this might only cover things that fall under S20, from my recollection). 

ThisIsWeird

I've rewritten this a couple of times, as I didn't correctly follow the sequence of events. :-(

You were informed of this issue before exchange, and kept in the loop afterwards? You didn't ask who would cover the cost? Or, discuss a possible discount on the purchase price? Your conveyancing solicitor didn't give advice on this?
I don't know the legalities, but it seems to me that the vendor kept you informed as best they could, and you must have anticipated facing this bill unless they'd agreed otherwise? I would have - or I'd certainly have asked for clarification!
Why did you seemingly assume that this work would be covered by the vendor? Did anyone suggest this?
Whether you can challenge their survey cost is possibly another matter, but that's surely minor in any case.
A couple of other concerns; why is one director taking on the responsibility and decision making without keeping their colleagues fully informed and included in the decisions? I'd have thought that the other two (and you are now one of them) could simply refuse to act on their recommendations for this work - unless they gave them permission to act independently. How many quotes did they get?!
Is there a sink fund for this building? If not, agree to set one up.

RHemmings

EssexHebridean said:

What did the LPE1 form say about the roof repairs, would be another question. (Although this might only cover things that fall under S20, from my recollection). 

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean here. (And I would like to know.) Do you mean that roof repairs wouldn't fall under a S20? I was thinking that all major works, which would include roofs, would come under a S20.

Assuming that they are: was the previous owner issued with a S20? How were they 'made aware'? Formally, or informally. 

eddddy

These situations can get very messy with Shared Freeholds.

Perhaps key questions to start with...

• Will your contribution be over £250? (I assume it will be)

• Was a section 20 consultation done - which usually takes around 3 months?

• Or are the roof repairs so urgent that they cannot wait 3 months? (It doesn't sound like it, if they were first investigated in March.)

• What date was the demand for payment (bill) for the roof repairs issued to the flat owners? Was it before or after your completion date?

• Did the previous owner agree to pay for the roof repair works? (If so, no section 20 consultation is required, but the previous owner is probably liable for the cost, not you.)

'Sensible' freeholders would have collected the payments from the flat owners in advance before booking the roofer. Otherwise, somebody might fail to pay - and there would be insufficient money to pay the roofer.  So did the previous owner not pay in advance?  Is the roofer (and surveyor) still waiting for their money?

EssexHebridean

RHemmings said:

EssexHebridean said:

What did the LPE1 form say about the roof repairs, would be another question. (Although this might only cover things that fall under S20, from my recollection). 

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean here. (And I would like to know.) Do you mean that roof repairs wouldn't fall under a S20? I was thinking that all major works, which would include roofs, would come under a S20.

Assuming that they are: was the previous owner issued with a S20? How were they 'made aware'? Formally, or informally. 

It's more that an LPE1 form only asks about S20 notices really - and yes, in an ideal world an S20 would have been issued, but it may be that the works were considered "emergency" in which case that process might have been bypassed (it's a lengthy process, and leaving people with water coming in for example while you "follow the process" isn't usually considered reasonable! Having said that, the TA7 (Leasehold Information form) completed by the sellers should have mentioned anything that was already known about, even if it had just been informally agreed. 

JessiceHope03

user1977 said:

Did you get separate confirmation of the position from the freeholders prior to exchange? Or only from your seller?

No, only from the seller. We did not have any correspondence with the other freeholders until completion.

JessiceHope03

ThisIsWeird said:

I've rewritten this a couple of times, as I didn't correctly follow the sequence of events. :-(

You were informed of this issue before exchange, and kept in the loop afterwards? You didn't ask who would cover the cost? Or, discuss a possible discount on the purchase price? Your conveyancing solicitor didn't give advice on this?
I don't know the legalities, but it seems to me that the vendor kept you informed as best they could, and you must have anticipated facing this bill unless they'd agreed otherwise? I would have - or I'd certainly have asked for clarification!
Why did you seemingly assume that this work would be covered by the vendor? Did anyone suggest this?
Whether you can challenge their survey cost is possibly another matter, but that's surely minor in any case.
A couple of other concerns; why is one director taking on the responsibility and decision making without keeping their colleagues fully informed and included in the decisions? I'd have thought that the other two (and you are now one of them) could simply refuse to act on their recommendations for this work - unless they gave them permission to act independently. How many quotes did they get?!
Is there a sink fund for this building? If not, agree to set one up.

It is super confusing.
The seller was only made aware of the cost 2 weeks before we completed (one week before exchange), and this was that there 'could' be works in the future and that only an initial quote had been obtained. Because of this and the fact we already had a reduced sale price (the property needs a lot of internal work), we moved forwards thinking it was something we could participate in ourselves, get our own quotes and then decide a timeframe.
It transpires that the other freeholder then booked and confirmed a builder to come this week on the exact day we completed on the property. So did not consult with us or the seller. We're not assuming the work would be covered by the vendor we're just disputing whether we would need to pay this immediately? We will if we have to.. however I'm just keen to know if anyone has any advise to be honest

JessiceHope03

eddddy said:

These situations can get very messy with Shared Freeholds.

Perhaps key questions to start with...

• Will your contribution be over £250? (I assume it will be)

• Was a section 20 consultation done - which usually takes around 3 months?

• Or are the roof repairs so urgent that they cannot wait 3 months? (It doesn't sound like it, if they were first investigated in March.)

• What date was the demand for payment (bill) for the roof repairs issued to the flat owners? Was it before or after your completion date?

• Did the previous owner agree to pay for the roof repair works? (If so, no section 20 consultation is required, but the previous owner is probably liable for the cost, not you.)

'Sensible' freeholders would have collected the payments from the flat owners in advance before booking the roofer. Otherwise, somebody might fail to pay - and there would be insufficient money to pay the roofer.  So did the previous owner not pay in advance?  Is the roofer (and surveyor) still waiting for their money?

Yes the contribution from ourselves would be £3k.
No it wasn't as nothing has flagged at all on any forms we had from the seller, the seller was only made aware of this 2 weeks before we completed. The other freeholder was obtainging quotes and having surveys done in the background... no idea why they didn't invoice people for this immediately.
The freeholder that has arranged this paid a deposit and is now asking for us to reimburse them 1/3 and then contribute to the final cost which will be due next week when they come. All of this was arranged on the day we completed on the property. I have no idea why they didn't wait to meet the new freeholders and discuss this before booking someone.
I don't think the previous owners agreed to pay as they were not aware of it until recently.

eddddy

JessiceHope03 said:
Yes the contribution from ourselves would be £3k.

No it wasn't as nothing has flagged at all on any forms we had from the seller, the seller was only made aware of this 2 weeks before we completed. The other freeholder was obtainging quotes and having surveys done in the background... no idea why they didn't invoice people for this immediately.
The freeholder that has arranged this paid a deposit and is now asking for us to reimburse them 1/3 and then contribute to the final cost which will be due next week when they come. All of this was arranged on the day we completed on the property. I have no idea why they didn't wait to meet the new freeholders and discuss this before booking someone.

Just on this specific point:

JessiceHope03 said:

I don't think the previous owners agreed to pay as they were not aware of it until recently.

It would only take 10 seconds for an agreement to pay to be made...

• The freeholder says "I've got a quote for roof repairs. Your contribution would be £3k. Are you OK with that?"
• The previous owner says "Yes"

(But a sensible freeholder would have asked the previous owner to confirm that in writing)



But more generally, based on what you say - it sounds very much like it's an 'amateurish' freeholder who has probably messed up.

(Their only get-out might be if they claim that the work was so urgent it couldn't wait for a section 20 consultation, and the freeholder now applies to a tribunal for dispensation from a section 20 consultation.)

So it seems likely that you cannot be forced to pay.

But that will leave the freeholder (your neighbour) in a big hole and potentially £3k out of pocket - although it seems like it's their fault.



Maybe you could say something like this to the freeholder:

"I assume you discussed this with the previous owner, and you got their agreement that they would  pay. So you need to chase the previous owner for payment.

You didn't discuss this me, and therefore I didn't agree to pay.

It's probably best if you get flat owners' agreement in writing for any future work, and ask them to pay in advance, to avoid this kind of problem in future"