Winter fuel payment

Sarahspangles

This is the actual programme for help and support for older people wanting to return to work or stay in work, and employers who want to retain them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-and-support-for-older-workers/help-and-support-for-older-workers

It started before the pandemic and went up a notch when that resulted in lots of 50+ being displaced from jobs and businesses facing insufficient income pre and in retirement, with accompanying deterioration in health and well-being.

TheBanker

kb56 said:

surely this can be easily sorted via input from the tax office I’m guessing that if you’re still earning you can afford to pay for your energy. Also higher tax bracket pensioners wouldn’t qualify. I am also surprised that some residents in nursing homes qualify when they don’t even pay heating bills.

why do pensions fall short of minimum wage? The current pension rate per hour is around £6.30 based on a 35 hour week. Workers benefit from the constant reduction in national insurance this doesn’t benefit pensioners

Pensioners don't pay National Insurance - how could they benefit from a reduction when they already effectively receive a 100% discount? Pensioners can't benefit from reductions, neither have they been impacted by the increases that have taken place over the years. 

Likewise, working people don't benefit from the Triple Lock increases - they just pay for it through their own National Insurance contributions. 

I think Universal Credit for an unepmployed person works out at about £2.80 an hour for a single adult based on a 35 hour week. So if a single adult can live on £2.80 why does a pensioner need £6.30?

TheBanker

MattMattMattUK said:

Kim_13 said:

Silvertabby said:

kb56 said:

surely this can be easily sorted via input from the tax office I’m guessing that if you’re still earning you can afford to pay for your energy. Also higher tax bracket pensioners wouldn’t qualify. I am also surprised that some residents in nursing homes qualify when they don’t even pay heating bills.

why do pensions fall short of minimum wage? The current pension rate per hour is around £6.30 based on a 35 hour week. Workers benefit from the constant reduction in national insurance this doesn’t benefit pensioners

WFA and the difference between the State pension and the minimum wage are two completely separate issues.

In the case of State pension/wages....

1.  Workers on the minimum wage have expenses that pensioners don't.  ie, child related expenses and work expenses including commuting costs, for a start.  Plus NI contributions.

2.  Pensioners (over SPA)  don't pay NI at all, so puzzled by your comment that only workers have benefitted from the recent NI reductions.  Plus pensioners and are expected to have accrued other pension(s) income.

This only skims the surface.  

It’s good point in that a pensioner who is still being paid by an employer would be better able to manage without the payment than someone just above the Pension Credit cut off, whether that be through a State Pension only or an older State Pension and a very small private pension. Having deferred the State Pension would also be an indicator that the money was not needed.

Had it been done such that only basic rate and non taxpayers would get it this year, pending development of a more suitable means test, then I think there’d be very little opposition to the move.

As Hugh points out that would not have been practical with the tax year, it would also mean that people with incomes up to £50k would still get the WFP, so a household with two pensioners on £100k would still get the WFP, which is a waste of taxpayer funds. The reason that the changes have happened is a lot of pensioners have no need whatsoever for the WFP and the Pension Credit threshold makes a reasonable amount of sense. What really needs to happen is a proper reassessment of the pension system, abolishing almost all additional payments and having a baseline pension for all and an enhanced pension for those who have paid enough tax to qualify, together with abolishing the triple lock and adding a single inflation linked annual rise. However pensions and rational are something the UK has never been able to join together. 

This is the most sensible post on this topic I have seen.

We really need to ask what is the purpose of the State Pension? I think it's to make sure people have sufficient income in their old age to cover their cost of living, including heating bills. Pension Credit exists to top this up for the poorest pensioners and Attendence Allowance is there to help those who need extra help due to disability. Some pensioners will qualify for Cold Weather payments which will cover unexpected additional heating costs. There is no need for a random £200 to be paid to everyone.

Had the timing been different, I suspect the Government would have preferred to announce the scrapping of the WFA at the same time as announcing the annual pension increase. On a net benefit pensioners would still be better off and they could have positioned it as rolling the £200 into the standard pension.