Chimney Issue

Av2698

My partner and I are in the process of trying to buy a house. We agreed a price on a house and we had our survey done. No major issues except for a chimney breast. The survey showed that the breast has been removed in the kitchen on the ground floor but is present in the upstairs bedroom and the loft. Whilst it currently looks structurally stable they could not confirm if there is sufficient support for the remaining chimney stack. We raised this enquiry with the sellers who could not provide any evidence of support since it was previous home owners who removed the chimney in the kitchen. After a lot of back and forth we've not come to any agreement, the sellers aren't willing to do extensive investigation to check for any supports and aren't willing to reduce the cost of the house in the event the chimney becomes unstable, they only offered to pay for indemnity insurance. Our solicitor has said that indemnity insurance would not protect us if chimney stack needs repairs and we would be liable to pay large repair costs. The sellers are now threatening to put the house back on the market as they are getting frustrated with the lack of progress, and because the problem with the chimney is 'speculative'. Are my partner and I right to be hesitant about buying the house without any protection against this chimney breast becoming unstable? Or are we being too pedantic?

Mark_d

I think you're right to be concerned.  You don't want existing structural defects to threaten your investment.  Personally I would accept the advice of your surveyor and solicitor and look for another property to buy.

PRAISETHESUN

I think both parties are in the right here - you are right to be worried about the structural integrity of your potential house purchase, and the seller is right to be annoyed that things are progressing slowly. You can only do what's best for yourself, so if you're not satisfied with what the seller has said and are not prepared to pay for the requisite survey work yourself to know what the actual situation is, then I'd say it's probably best to walk away.

Rodders53

So how many years has this been like that? 
Two?
Five?
Ten?
Twenty?
Longer?

If a very long time and it's still standing, why would it suddenly collapse in the near future?
It's either been supported... or not... either way with no sign of movement...

Have you asked your Surveyor for clarification further advice?
e.g. Have you asked Surveyor for indicative costs for investigating and providing any missing structural support?
Or for indicative costs to remove of all the remaining chimney (and gain space upstairs)?

PRDMKT

Av2698 said:

My partner and I are in the process of trying to buy a house. We agreed a price on a house and we had our survey done. No major issues except for a chimney breast. The survey showed that the breast has been removed in the kitchen on the ground floor but is present in the upstairs bedroom and the loft. Whilst it currently looks structurally stable they could not confirm if there is sufficient support for the remaining chimney stack. We raised this enquiry with the sellers who could not provide any evidence of support since it was previous home owners who removed the chimney in the kitchen. After a lot of back and forth we've not come to any agreement, the sellers aren't willing to do extensive investigation to check for any supports and aren't willing to reduce the cost of the house in the event the chimney becomes unstable, they only offered to pay for indemnity insurance. Our solicitor has said that indemnity insurance would not protect us if chimney stack needs repairs and we would be liable to pay large repair costs. The sellers are now threatening to put the house back on the market as they are getting frustrated with the lack of progress, and because the problem with the chimney is 'speculative'. Are my partner and I right to be hesitant about buying the house without any protection against this chimney breast becoming unstable? Or are we being too pedantic?

It's not uncommon for the seller to avoid covering the cost of investigative surveys, leaving the buyer to verify the property’s condition themselves—similar to why you hired a surveyor at your own expense rather than the seller doing so.

Does this issue bother you now? If it does, it’s likely to be a bigger concern if you proceed without further investigation. Your options are to either pay to investigate at your own cost or walk away from the deal. You can, and should, try to get the seller to provide proof that everything has been done properly, but sellers often refuse, leaving the responsibility on the buyer. 

Unfortunately, it’s a classic case of “buyer beware."

silvercar

You have to decide if the potential cost is worth it or not. I think you are talking about a few thousand pounds to completely remove it, which would give you more floor space in the room. To put in a support would be cheaper, possibly £2k. You would then need to redecorate. 

Alternatively, it could be that the remaining chimney breast is well supported.

As someone who put a foot through an unsupported chimney hearth, that had been that way for 15+ years, there is no guarantee that something won't give way now, even if it has stood the test of time so far.

FreeBear

PRDMKT said: Your options are to either pay to investigate at your own cost or walk away from the deal.

To investigate further would involve opening up ceilings/floors and possibly drilling holes in the walls - Highly unlikely any vendor would agree to this. So the two choices become a) take a gamble or b) walk away.

Just because a chimney has been standing for xx years after having a supporting breast removed is no guarantee that it won't fall down within y months. A catastrophic failure could be triggered by the neighbour removing their chimney breast (if terraced or a semi), an earthquake (yes, these do happen in the UK) or piling work close by. Perhaps even a vehicle crashing in to the building (far more likely having seen some of the idiots on the roads).

Albermarle

Very similar recent thread could be of interest.

House we are interested has no chimney Breasts in ground floor — MoneySavingExpert Forum