House we are interested has no chimney Breasts in ground floor

bbbuyer

Having heard stories of unsupported chimneys breasts (note that I do not know if they are supported or not) - but is possible no one knows.

I have checked the Building Control and can see the house has a few planning applications and permitted development entries such as a rear extension/new kitchen but no mention of Chimney Breast removal in those plans. But to be honest I am not sure exactly what sort of things should/must show on Building Control - e.g. they had also rewire done downstairs but no mention of that - it was done at same time of extension.

Owner is deceased (probate sale). We have enquired with family but they may not know.
What is the normal procedure in these situations and is normal to show in Building Control registry?

FreeBear

Building Control records do not appear online for most councils, only planning applications. However, if you pay a visit to the local council, you can ask them what records they hold with respect to notifiable works that have been done. This will cover such things as replacement windows/doors (post 2002), rewiring, structural alterations, and so on. Keep the query generic and do not mention any specific alterations or concerns.

Without some intrusive investigation by your surveyor (unlikely the vendors will give permission), you won't know if adequate supports are in place. So cross your fingers that the family can provide some information.

bbbuyer

This council in question does have some entries for this particular house some that are no part of the planning application but done in the same “project” I suspect.

is structural engineer the solution if the family does not know/have the information?

horsewithnoname

My home has one unsupported chimney. I just paid an insurance premium as a one off and that was it. It wasn’t expensive and nothing bad has happened in 20 odd years. The people who owned it before me hadn’t had it done, so it had definitely managed fine for decades. 

It’s not a huge issue, if it’s been ok for ages, in my opinion; but you could get a structural engineer to look if it worries you. 

Bigphil1474

Yes, you'll probably need a structural engineer. We sold FIL's property with no chimney in ground floor front room. It had been removed 40 years ago. The upper chimney should be supported somewhere and you may need someone to work out if the support is sufficient. If it's been like that a long time, then probably okay. In our case, the buyer was okay with it as it just needed a gallows bracket fitting. 

This is what I was told - If the lower chimney was removed after around 1984 then it should have been through Building Control. If it hasn't you can still go back to them - it's called something like regularisation. If it was done before 1984 ish, then it's easier just to get it fixed and then get BC sign off anew.

stuart45

If it hasn't been signed off and they won't allow an intrusive survey you'd have to assume it's unsupported and allow for remedial work in your budget.
Some people will advise you that if it's been OK for 40 years there's no problem, but it's not the advice that I'd give.

doodling

Hi,

horsewithnoname said:

My home has one unsupported chimney. I just paid an insurance premium as a one off and that was it. It wasn’t expensive and nothing bad has happened in 20 odd years. The people who owned it before me hadn’t had it done, so it had definitely managed fine for decades. 

It’s not a huge issue, if it’s been ok for ages, in my opinion; but you could get a structural engineer to look if it worries you. 

Whilst insurance policies are good for many things, I have yet to see one magically leap up and protect the holder from several tonnes of falling masonry. 

Insurance is great if the risk is purely financial - if there is a risk that someone might be harmed then you need to deal with that risk before it crystallises rather than  afterwards.

silvercar

stuart45 said:

If it hasn't been signed off and they won't allow an intrusive survey you'd have to assume it's unsupported and allow for remedial work in your budget.
Some people will advise you that if it's been OK for 40 years there's no problem, but it's not the advice that I'd give.

Having recently put my foot through what turned out to be an unsupported piece of hearth that must have been in place for at least 15 years, it's also not the advice that I would give!

Albermarle

Worth noting that if you remove the first floor chimney breast ( with of course suitable support for the stack, if it is not removed altogether) you will create more space in an upstairs room presumably.

FreeBear

Here is what can happen with an unsupported chimney stack -

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HF1pHzGkSC4

Admittedly, this collapse occurred during removal (I believe) of the internal brickwork. Just because an unsupported stack has been OK for 40 years, something could trigger a catastrophic failure. For example, an earthquake - The BGS records some 200-300 earthquakes every year. The last big one of any note was in 2008 (Market Rasen, 5.2) and caused structural damage to several buildings.

horsewithnoname

Mine has survived an earthquake.