Always an Internal Candidate

FlyMeSomewhere79

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me. The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got. I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

DullGreyGuy

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me. The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got. I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

Internal candidates are a known quantity, taking on someone new is always a bit of a roll of the dice as someone may be a great interviewee but poor employee. 

If recruitment agencies are involved then they are also cheaper because there is no margin to pay. Obviously you can't shuffle people indefinitely but if everyone moves up one square then at least the new person comes in at the bottom on lower pay and so margin is lower in absolute terms. 

Normally when you are available is covered off on the application and I've not been asked about holidays etc for a good 15 years. 


Given I am a temp I rarely get turned down for someone internal but I am trumped more often than I'd like by someone who's worked for them before (known quantity) or an internal referral (so no agency fees). It's frustrating but also understandable. Thankfully if you keep at it you find someone who is willing to roll the dice or thinks your skills/experience warrants paying the agency. 

MattMattMattUK

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

Some people will on occasion, most will not.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me.

None of that is really relevant at the interview stage, at least a first interview. I would not ask prospective employees when they were available or what holidays they had at a first interview, that is irrelevant at that stage. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

That happens and has happened to most of us at one point or another, we will not always be the best candidate. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got.

The jobs market is somewhat tight at the moment and will likely remain so ahead of the budget, but key to the market is selling oneself (which I accept can be easier said than done), but it really is a numbers game. Most mid level jobs will have dozens of candidates applying, lower level positions more, but minimum wage/entry level positions can get hundreds of applications. You just have to keep plugging away, keep applying and the right opportunity and interview will happen.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

There are plenty of times when internal candidates do not get the job, having internal candidates is not wasting people's time.

molerat

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

FlyMeSomewhere79

MattMattMattUK said:

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

Some people will on occasion, most will not.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me.

None of that is really relevant at the interview stage, at least a first interview. I would not ask prospective employees when they were available or what holidays they had at a first interview, that is irrelevant at that stage. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

That happens and has happened to most of us at one point or another, we will not always be the best candidate. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got.

The jobs market is somewhat tight at the moment and will likely remain so ahead of the budget, but key to the market is selling oneself (which I accept can be easier said than done), but it really is a numbers game. Most mid level jobs will have dozens of candidates applying, lower level positions more, but minimum wage/entry level positions can get hundreds of applications. You just have to keep plugging away, keep applying and the right opportunity and interview will happen.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

There are plenty of times when internal candidates do not get the job, having internal candidates is not wasting people's time.

I've had a number of interviews whilst the company I was working for was going through months of redundancy consultations and every time I was asked availability and planned holidays - throughout my career that has been the same unless I was being interviewed internally for a promotion so to me it's been genuinely normal to be asked. It's usually an exceptionally important thing to ask because a) candidates upcoming leave maybe an issue to a work commitment or b) there is a big difference someone being immediately available and may be not a available for three months which is the notice period I had to give had I not been laid off. There isn't always a second interview and I was told there wasn't going to be a second interview, only a very imminent decision. 

I did not say employing an internal candidate was a waste of time, but people and especially NHS generally give all their vacancies to internal candidates. That's fine, but don't call external candidates in for a interview especially if you are waiting weeks for that interview if they are not relevant or remotely in the running. You are probably lucky enough to not be in my situation right now and hence you being very dismissive of me. As woman that also built my career in a male dominated environment I have had lots of experience of how difficult it can be to get a look in with opportunities.

FlyMeSomewhere79

DullGreyGuy said:

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me. The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got. I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

Internal candidates are a known quantity, taking on someone new is always a bit of a roll of the dice as someone may be a great interviewee but poor employee. 

If recruitment agencies are involved then they are also cheaper because there is no margin to pay. Obviously you can't shuffle people indefinitely but if everyone moves up one square then at least the new person comes in at the bottom on lower pay and so margin is lower in absolute terms. 

Normally when you are available is covered off on the application and I've not been asked about holidays etc for a good 15 years. 


Given I am a temp I rarely get turned down for someone internal but I am trumped more often than I'd like by someone who's worked for them before (known quantity) or an internal referral (so no agency fees). It's frustrating but also understandable. Thankfully if you keep at it you find someone who is willing to roll the dice or thinks your skills/experience warrants paying the agency. 

I'll get there, I always do eventually I'm just sad that I lost the job and the workmates that I wanted to work with until I retired and now I'm back in the world of job hunting that seems harder than ever.

TELLIT01

Did the company say the job had gone to an internal candidate, or just say there was an 'outstanding candidate'.  It's two very different things.  It may have been a genuine outstanding candidate, seen before the OP, and the interviewers felt that the OP wasn't of the same standard.

However, over the years I went for a few intervals where I felt it was to make up the numbers. There was one interview where it was obvious they were doing a tick box exercise by interviewing external candidate.  While waiting to go in for the interview I could see the list of other applicants and I was the only one marked (external).

strawb_shortcake

I've also seen external candidates be offered interviews and posts over internal as internal will just create a different gap. It works both ways

MattMattMattUK

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

Anybody else feeling the frustration of seemingly always losing out to internal candidates? 

Some people will on occasion, most will not.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I had an interview last Thursday that was all very nice and positive but it felt weirdly short and I wasn't asked the fundamental things like when am I available and what holidays have I got booked etc and that rang alarm bells with me.

None of that is really relevant at the interview stage, at least a first interview. I would not ask prospective employees when they were available or what holidays they had at a first interview, that is irrelevant at that stage. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

The interviewer was on leave on Friday and said we'd hear today (Mon) and pretty quickly I got an email this morning telling me I was unsuccessful due to an outstanding candidate. 

That happens and has happened to most of us at one point or another, we will not always be the best candidate. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I've been made redundant and out of work through no fault of my own and it's so hard to get in anywhere despite having so much in the way of skills, qualifications & experience. It's like nobody focuses on what you have to offer, they dwell on what experience you haven't got.

The jobs market is somewhat tight at the moment and will likely remain so ahead of the budget, but key to the market is selling oneself (which I accept can be easier said than done), but it really is a numbers game. Most mid level jobs will have dozens of candidates applying, lower level positions more, but minimum wage/entry level positions can get hundreds of applications. You just have to keep plugging away, keep applying and the right opportunity and interview will happen.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time! 

There are plenty of times when internal candidates do not get the job, having internal candidates is not wasting people's time.

I've had a number of interviews whilst the company I was working for was going through months of redundancy consultations and every time I was asked availability and planned holidays - throughout my career that has been the same unless I was being interviewed internally for a promotion so to me it's been genuinely normal to be asked. It's usually an exceptionally important thing to ask because a) candidates upcoming leave maybe an issue to a work commitment or b) there is a big difference someone being immediately available and may be not a available for three months which is the notice period I had to give had I not been laid off. There isn't always a second interview and I was told there wasn't going to be a second interview, only a very imminent decision. 

I have not been asked those questions at a first interview since I was 16. If a company is recruiting above entry level they are rarely looking for someone to fill an immediate gap, but are taking the view that recruitment is to fill a long term requirement, so immediate start vs them having to work their notice period and them having holidays already booked is not really an issue, those things get managed in general business operations. It might vary dependant on sector, you mention the NHS and healthcare is a sector I do not have direct experience of, but I would say in most other business sectors it would be unusual to ask those questions at first/only interview. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I did not say employing an internal candidate was a waste of time, but people and especially NHS generally give all their vacancies to internal candidates. 

You said, "I would rather if companies have internal candidates that they don't waste anyone else's time!", I responded to that comment by stating "There are plenty of times when internal candidates do not get the job, having internal candidates is not wasting people's time.", which is factually correct.

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:
That's fine, but don't call external candidates in for a interview especially if you are waiting weeks for that interview if they are not relevant or remotely in the running.

Jobs are primarily advertised to external candidates for two reasons, the first is because of transparency, the second is because there may well be better candidates who apply from outside the organisation. Those external candidates will only get invited for an interview if it is thought that they could be better than the internal candidate. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:
You are probably lucky enough to not be in my situation right now and hence you being very dismissive of me. 

I am not being dismissive, I am being factual. I am not in your situation at the moment, I have been in the past, lost out to internal candidates, lost out to other candidates, I have also been on the other side, recruiting from internal and external candidates and have recruited both, recruiting on the basis of wanting the best candidate. 

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:
 As woman that also built my career in a male dominated environment I have had lots of experience of how difficult it can be to get a look in with opportunities.

It can be difficult for anyone to get a look in, particularly in highly competitive sectors, historically that has been worse for women and minorities, how much impact it has has depended on era and the characteristic. Thankfully we have come a long way from those times and whilst I do not doubt there are still some dinosaurs out there most of the people who hold those views are long retired. 

I have friends who are currently looking for work, skilled people, plenty of experience, but they are not finding jobs as quickly as they would have previously, these are people who have typically walked from one job straight into the next. One friend had three interviews for different roles within the same company etc. I accept that the job market is not strong at the moment and I can understand that it might be somewhat disheartening, but laying the blame at the door of companies having internal candidates is misdirected. 

LightFlare

Not true about the NHS always appointing internally -- you just have the issue of back filling that person then.

Sometimes, external candidates are preferred.

Pros and Cons - but I would say its consistently one or the other - would like to say the best candidate gets appointed (or does when Ive interviewed)

Purplelady65

I work in the NHS and I would say that appointments don’t favour internal or external candidates. I have been on interview panels where the best person for the job was an internal candidate and I’ve also been on interview panels where the best person for the job was an external candidate. I also wouldn’t ask about planned holidays as for me the priority is to appoint the person best suited to the role. I know it must feel disheartening applying for jobs but if you keep at it you’ll get there. I don’t know what sort of role you’re looking for or salary but there are lots of fixed term posts currently in the NHS due to funding restrictions that might be of interest?