Always an Internal Candidate

Andy_L

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

FlyMeSomewhere79

I spent a long time trying to build my career within an organisation I used to work for and just trying to get promotion into another department was always nightmare because there was always some either in that department already that was promised it or they bring a friend in from another department - nepotism was a notorious issue there.

As for the NHS, my partner is an NHS worker and he always says that they usually always favour internal candidates. I once many years ago had an interview at our local hospital for an office job, whilst I was sat waiting to go in, I heard the person in the room before me asking if they would get help and support because they were being put into a job they didn't know how to go because they'd been displaced! 

For someone like me who has had to deal with internal candidates beating me to jobs as many times as they have, my frustrations are valid!

We've got thousands about to be made redundant from the steel industry where I live and I just don't know where they'll all end up because there's little help from any businesses to open up to outsiders!

Undervalued

FlyMeSomewhere79 said:

I spent a long time trying to build my career within an organisation I used to work for and just trying to get promotion into another department was always nightmare because there was always some either in that department already that was promised it or they bring a friend in from another department - nepotism was a notorious issue there.

As for the NHS, my partner is an NHS worker and he always says that they usually always favour internal candidates. I once many years ago had an interview at our local hospital for an office job, whilst I was sat waiting to go in, I heard the person in the room before me asking if they would get help and support because they were being put into a job they didn't know how to go because they'd been displaced! 

For someone like me who has had to deal with internal candidates beating me to jobs as many times as they have, my frustrations are valid!

We've got thousands about to be made redundant from the steel industry where I live and I just don't know where they'll all end up because there's little help from any businesses to open up to outsiders!

I would say understandable rather than valid I'm afraid.

It is perfectly valid for a company to favour (or indeed reject) an internal candidate as obviously they have far more to go on in making that decision compared with somebody applying from outside.

LightFlare

Sometimes internal are preferred over external and vice versa.
The reasons for which vastly depend.
Why you aren’t getting appointed is pure guess work unless any interview feedback gives clear reasons (it rarely does)

Saver73

I've been on both sides of this situation and it frustrating to say the least!

I have been the external candidate who was unsuccessful and the internal candidate got the job.

I have been the internal candidate who got the job and the external candidate was unsuccessful.

Recently I applied for and interviewed for an internal job role with my current employer, who interviewed external candidates at the same time. An external candidate has been successful (I know them!) though my employer hasn't told me the outcome of my interview yet.  

Fortunately I have secured a new role as I was also applying and interviewing for external roles but I would have stayed with my current employer if there was opportunity to progress or move onto other roles.

I think there should be two sides to recruitment - internal and external. Advertise job vacancies on an internal jobs board say for 2 weeks and if no applicants then advertise externally.  Though this wouldn't really work in the sector I'm employed in as employers want to fill roles quickly and minimise recruitment costs.

Loyalty means nothing these days and the employer doesn't always favour the internal candidate.

Roll on early retirement.... 

DontBringBertie

Andy_L said:

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

I’ve worked for the NHS for the last 5 years at 3 different Trusts and we’ve always had to advertise internally and externally at the same time. And if someone external applies who meets the minimum criteria, they have to be interviewed.

Andy_L

DontBringBertie said:

Andy_L said:

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

I’ve worked for the NHS for the last 5 years at 3 different Trusts and we’ve always had to advertise internally and externally at the same time. And if someone external applies who meets the minimum criteria, they have to be interviewed.

They are choosing to do that as an internal policy, plenty of trusts don't.
 They don't have to do lt by law, unlike senior civil service posts.

Undervalued

DontBringBertie said:

Andy_L said:

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

I’ve worked for the NHS for the last 5 years at 3 different Trusts and we’ve always had to advertise internally and externally at the same time. And if someone external applies who meets the minimum criteria, they have to be interviewed.

Some employers choose to have internal rules / policies to that effect but, as Andy_L has explained only the civil service are required to do this by law.

People often forget an employer can select candidates on any basis they choose, except for a handful of protected criteria that would amount to unlawful discrimination such as race, religion gender etc and even these have some exceptions.

DontBringBertie

Andy_L said:

DontBringBertie said:

Andy_L said:

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

I’ve worked for the NHS for the last 5 years at 3 different Trusts and we’ve always had to advertise internally and externally at the same time. And if someone external applies who meets the minimum criteria, they have to be interviewed.

They are choosing to do that as an internal policy, plenty of trusts don't.
 They don't have to do lt by law, unlike senior civil service posts.

They do have to do it though as it’s required by an internal policy.

‘Required by law’ wasn’t mentioned in the original post.

 

Andy_L

DontBringBertie said:

Andy_L said:

DontBringBertie said:

Andy_L said:

molerat said:

Had the same a couple of times.  I got the feeling the interview was a sham as I was the one asking most of the questions.  It was public sector so they had to interview.  A waste of everyone's time.

not true. Only the senior civil service posts have to be advertised externally at the same time as offered to internal candidates. Everyone else is free to go internal only first

I’ve worked for the NHS for the last 5 years at 3 different Trusts and we’ve always had to advertise internally and externally at the same time. And if someone external applies who meets the minimum criteria, they have to be interviewed.

They are choosing to do that as an internal policy, plenty of trusts don't.
 They don't have to do lt by law, unlike senior civil service posts.

They do have to do it though as it’s required by an internal policy.

‘Required by law’ wasn’t mentioned in the original post.

 

I suppose it depends who you mean by "they" to me "they" is the organisation (ie the NHS Trust in DontBringBertie's your post) so they have chosen to do that rather than having the requirement to do it imposed on them. Now if by "they" you mean the employing manager who's advertising for new staff then yes, "they" have to follow this policy.

The post I was replying to was saying that the public sector have to advertise externally & can't just go internal first, which isn't true.

eg jobs.nhs.uk has, currently, 4345 vacancies that are flagged "internal only"

https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/candidate/search/results?keyword=internal only&language=en

ETA Civil Service guidelines

"Ensure the Vacancy Filling Scheme guidelines are adhered to:
Stage 1* – Internal, level moves
Stage 2 - Exclusive 10 day period for surplus staff in all departments at their current grade
Stage 3 - Vacancies advertised to staff in all departments and accredited Non Departmental Public Bodies (NDPB), regardless of grade
Stage 4 - External recruitment

*This is not a compulsory Stage.

Departments can advertise at Stage 1 on promotion or at Stage 3 on level transfer where there is an exceptional business need and approval has been granted. You should obtain a copy of the approval. In exceptional circumstances due to specific business requirements the vacancy holder can contact the Civil Service Resourcing Exemption Team who can give approval to bypass Stage 2 or advertise Stages concurrently [IE normal practice is to do them consecutively]"

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7db8fbe5274a5eaea65eff/140325_Guide_for_Recruiters_v1a.pdf